Fuck. I hate paypal

[Shannon Chenoweth]

I swear I used to be able to get money without paying fees. Now everything I get sent I pay a percentage to them. WTF? Anyone know how to get around this? Is there a way to go back to being a personal account (which is all I use it for anyway)?

RC

[Shannon Chenoweth]

I am so pissed about this. I basically had to pay almost what I get per book from comixpress for a fee just to get the rest of the money (meaning the fee equaled the profit of one book just about). I know I've gotten money before without paying.

RC

[alexlannin]

I've always had fees deducted.

[Shannon Chenoweth]

I've always had fees deducted.

Guess that's how they make money, but it sucks ass.

RC

[Taxman]

I have always spent all the money I had, so I never had to deal with that end of things.

[Mike Haseloff]

I hate it because the only way Australians can use it effectively is with a credit card - and I don't have/want a credit card! :mad:

[Taxman]

I hate it because the only way Australians can use it effectively is with a credit card - and I don't have/want a credit card! :mad:

What, you think we don't have credit cards?

[Mike Haseloff]

What, you think we don't have credit cards?You have the option of just using a bank account.

[Frozen Sooner]

I hate PayPal.

HATE it.

Seriously, they have some of the worst fraud resolution procedures in the world. I'm very surprised that a class-action hasn't been filed against them for violation of Reg E yet.

For the love of all that's holy, do NOT let them get a hold of your bank account. If you use them, use a credit card. Then, at least, you can go through the credit card's fraud prevention when PayPal refuses to investigate your claim and pay you any fees their shit-poor security causes you.

[aj110]

that's why i only take check/money order when i sell stuff online. screw them taking my money away from me.

[Taxman]

You have the option of just using a bank account.

Yeah, like I would ever give access to my bank account to some third party corporation. The credit card companies have all us Yanks over a barrel any way because all the ATM cards are fake credit cards. Probably 90% of people have fake credit cards tied into their checking accounts.

[Taxman]

I hate PayPal.

HATE it.

Seriously, they have some of the worst fraud resolution procedures in the world. I'm very surprised that a class-action hasn't been filed against them for violation of Reg E yet.

Well, there is something worse than Pay Pal. Class-action suits!

[Frozen Sooner]

Yeah, like I would ever give access to my bank account to some third party corporation. The credit card companies have all us Yanks over a barrel any way because all the ATM cards are fake credit cards. Probably 90% of people have fake credit cards tied into their checking accounts.

You, sir, are a smart smart man.

Did I mention above about never giving PayPal access to your bank account?

[Mike Haseloff]

Yeah, like I would ever give access to my bank account to some third party corporation. The credit card companies have all us Yanks over a barrel any way because all the ATM cards are fake credit cards. Probably 90% of people have fake credit cards tied into their checking accounts.I have no idea what you mean by an ATM card being a fake credit card, and can only assume you're blowing the banking system and it's conveniences out of proportion.


I'd much rather be able to just key into my bank through PayPal.

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, there is something worse than Pay Pal. Class-action suits!

In some cases, sure. :D

This is a legitimate use of a class-action, though. A broad group of people that can be narrowly defined that have all been materially injured by the willfull negligence of a common party.

[Taxman]

I have no idea what you mean by an ATM card being a fake credit card, and can only assume you're blowing the banking system and it's conveniences out of proportion.


I'd much rather be able to just key into my bank through PayPal.

No, I am blowing nothing out of porportion. Years ago, the two major credit card associations usurped the the ATM system. Banks wanted to allow customers to use their ATM cards at retailers. Now, in the states, most ATM cards have Visa or Mastercard logos on them. It was supposed to become an electronic check, but instead, the credit card company charges the mechant the same fee as if the purchased had been financed. Unlike a true credit card, the companies do not extend the same level of fraud protection. If the credit card number on an ATM card is compromised, the theif gets direct access to the victims checking account, and these thefts are not always insured.

[Mike Haseloff]

No, I am blowing nothing out of porportion. Years ago, the two major credit card associations usurped the the ATM system. Banks wanted to allow customers to use their ATM cards at retailers. Now, in the states, most ATM cards have Visa or Mastercard logos on them. It was supposed to become an electronic check, but instead, the credit card company charges the mechant the same fee as if the purchased had been financed. Unlike a true credit card, the companies do not extend the same level of fraud protection. If the credit card number on an ATM card is compromised, the theif gets direct access to the victims checking account, and these thefts are not always insured.We call using a bank card in stores - eftpos.

But I don't think we have the same connection between banks and credit card companies. Although, with some banks, you can have a bank/visa.

I don't think I understand enough to fully appreciate what you're saying.
I just have a bank account, and do what I can with it. :p

[Taxman]

In some cases, sure. :D

This is a legitimate use of a class-action, though. A broad group of people that can be narrowly defined that have all been materially injured by the willfull negligence of a common party.

Bah, the class is two big still. You'd be lucky to get more than five bucks out of it while the attorney firm would make millions. I get at least two or three notifications of new suits a year, and just toss them now.

[Taxman]

I just have a bank account, and do what I can with it. :p

Giving it over to Pay Pal would be a bad idea.

[Frozen Sooner]

No, I am blowing nothing out of porportion. Years ago, the two major credit card associations usurped the the ATM system. Banks wanted to allow customers to use their ATM cards at retailers. Now, in the states, most ATM cards have Visa or Mastercard logos on them. It was supposed to become an electronic check, but instead, the credit card company charges the mechant the same fee as if the purchased had been financed. Unlike a true credit card, the companies do not extend the same level of fraud protection. If the credit card number on an ATM card is compromised, the theif gets direct access to the victims checking account, and these thefts are not always insured.


OK, Tax, I'm going to have to give you some better information than you have here.

1) Signature-based purchases on a VISA or Mastercard debit card are afforded the same fraud protection VISA and MasterCard give on regular credit cards. Therefore, if someone gets ahold of the PAN from your card, you're not going to be held responsible for the purchases unless you fail to notify the issuing institution in a timely manner after you found out. Someone tells you different, they're full of shit. Trust me, I fill out my share of dispute forms on Visa Debit Cards and the money is returned in about 99% of cases-the 1% being where no fraud took place and the guy just had second thoughts about something he bought.

2. PIN-based transactions on regular ATM cards OR VISA/MasterCard debit cards have never been insured or protected from fraud (unless an individual institution was doing it.) Under Regulation E, any PIN-based transaction is presumed to be authorized and non-fraudulent. That's why we always tell people to never give ANYONE your PIN and tell them to NEVER write their PIN down and stick it in their wallet and NEVER make it a number that's easily guessed.

3. You seem to have some confusion as to how VISA and MasterCard make money. Yes, they charge a transaction fee on debit card purchases, just like they do on credit card purchases. That's how they make money. They do not impose finance charges. That's the issuing institution's job and how THEY make money.

4. VISA and MasterCard did not "usurp" the ATM networks, nor did they buy them out. We operate our own ATM network which we paid a shitload of money for. We stick the VISA and MasterCard logos on the ATMs because the ATM accepts cards that operate on those networks. We also accept cards that operate on Shazam, Alaska Option, Plus, and a few other networks. Mainly, the ATMs just picked up the ability to run cash advances on credit cards.

5. It was never supposed to be an "electronic check," though I'm sure many bankers have presented it as such. It's just a POS transaction. Electronic checks describes more like what Wal-Mart and Boston's are doing with POP presentment of checks through the ACH network.

[Mike Haseloff]

Giving it over to Pay Pal would be a bad idea.How is it giving it over to PayPal? And what are the negatives of doing so?

(Australian's can't anyway, but I'm curious)

[Taxman]

How is it giving it over to PayPal? And what are the negatives of doing so?

(Australian's can't anyway, but I'm curious)

There is always some chance that the bank's system would be compromised, and fund stolen electronically. Probably minimal, and if it happened, there are layers of insurance to cover those funds. Allowing a third party to withdraw money from your account is a whole different story. Just giving access to the third party increases the chances of fraud. If there ever was a Pay Pal breach, funds stolen from bank accounts wouldn't have the same protection as funds stolen directly from the banks itself, and if/when you had your funds replaced would be a much more tenuous situation.

[JABSEN]

Damn Paypal for offering an incredibly convenient payment option for a nominal fee.Damn them to Hades

[Taxman]

OK, Tax, I'm going to have to give you some better information than you have here.

Thanks for the information. I never thoguth that there were finance charges here, just point out that the merchant incurrs expense with each transaction.

Great to have those transactions insured as well. Having said that, I would never using the ATM-Debit card over the internet. Having your checking account cleaned out is a whole extra set of problems above and beyond having your credit card maxed out.

[Chingòn]

all you have to do if you make the mistake of upgrading your paypal account is to cancel your account and start a new one. when i was selling some stuff on paypal once, i thought i'd go ahead and upgrade cause i forgot to make mention in my listing that i would only accept paypal from verified users or ones that paid with paypal balances. so i upgraded so i could take one dude's credit card payment, and then found out i couldn't downgrade, so i just took all the money out of hte account, and then cancelled it, and started a new one. i'll never upgrade again... it's such a rip off unless you're moving serious money though paypal.

[Frozen Sooner]

Thanks for the information. I never thoguth that there were finance charges here, just point out that the merchant incurrs expense with each transaction.

Great to have those transactions insured as well. Having said that, I would never using the ATM-Debit card over the internet. Having your checking account cleaned out is a whole extra set of problems above and beyond having your credit card maxed out.

Coolio, and for the most part I agree. I use my Visa Debit Card on the internet every so often, but I also have the advantage of checking my account activity as often as I like. If I EVER notice a discrepancy-BOOM!-I can shut down the card and file a dispute.

Hasn't happened yet. I recognize that I have a somewhat unique situation for that though.

[Taxman]

Coolio, and for the most part I agree. I use my Visa Debit Card on the internet every so often, but I also have the advantage of checking my account activity as often as I like. If I EVER notice a discrepancy-BOOM!-I can shut down the card and file a dispute.

Hasn't happened yet. I recognize that I have a somewhat unique situation for that though.

A lot of moey moves throguh my checking account, I am not going to mess around with this at all.

[Smokinblues]

A lot of moey moves throguh my checking account, I am not going to mess around with this at all.

lotta money? you holding out on us?

[DrMachine]

Taxman's a pimp

and Shannon, what's wrong? all of a sudden you're not a capitalist...DIRTY COMMIE HIPPY...go back to COMMIE LAND!

[Taxman]

Shannon, what's wrong? all of a sudden you're not a capitalist...DIRTY COMMIE HIPPY...go back to COMMIE LAND!

Nobody's perfect.