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Ben
05-23-2007, 11:12 AM
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What an ending!

And right then, I know what I'm going to do. I can't bring Steve back. I can't be the hero he wanted me to be... But I can do one thing... I can kill Tony Stark.

Jef UK
05-23-2007, 11:13 AM
Yes, very cool.

Although, I'm switching to trades or hardcovers now. I just needed a taste!

Sharon and The Falcon are becoming a great characters in Bru's hands. Bucky too.

greg donovan
05-23-2007, 12:00 PM
i predict that bucky will get ahold of the time travel equipment that skull is deveopling and go back and save steve and sacrifice himself. however, that wont happen untill after he has killed tony in the present and realized he has made a huge mistake.

JoeE
05-23-2007, 12:02 PM
Swing and a miss...I got enough of Tony as the villain in ASM, and I don't want to read about it in another book.

Ed Brubaker
05-23-2007, 12:35 PM
JoeE I think you misread the issue. Tony actually is kind of sympathetic here.

Jerome Gibbons
05-23-2007, 01:46 PM
Man, Tony's life must really suck right now.

Mr. E!
05-23-2007, 01:52 PM
Swing and a miss...I got enough of Tony as the villain in ASM, and I don't want to read about it in another book.

He's not a villain! He's a FUTURIST! :)

Fusion
05-23-2007, 02:03 PM
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What an ending!

And right then, I know what I'm going to do. I can't bring Steve back. I can't be the hero he wanted me to be... But I can do one thing... I can kill Tony Stark.

HELL YEAH!!! :cool:

Ryan Elliott
05-23-2007, 02:08 PM
Great stuff!

Wastrel
05-23-2007, 02:29 PM
JoeE I think you misread the issue. Tony actually is kind of sympathetic here.

in what way? he did whatever he wanted for whatever reasons he wanted. im supposed to feel sympathy for him cause he feels real bad about the result of what he brought about? poor, weepy director of shield. hes an asshole.

oh, and i enjoyed the issue, which is saying something because i dont like most superhero comics. :p

Fusion
05-23-2007, 02:41 PM
in what way? he did whatever he wanted for whatever reasons he wanted. im supposed to feel sympathy for him cause he feels real bad about the result of what he brought about? poor, weepy director of shield. hes an asshole.

oh, and i enjoyed the issue, which is saying something because i dont like most superhero comics. :p

exactly. Can't feel sorry for a guy who would sellout and stab his friends in the back for money and power.

Jerome Gibbons
05-23-2007, 02:42 PM
in what way? he did whatever he wanted for whatever reasons he wanted. im supposed to feel sympathy for him cause he feels real bad about the result of what he brought about?

How did he bring about Cap's death?

Wastrel
05-23-2007, 02:43 PM
exactly. Can't feel sorry for a guy who would sellout and stab his friends in the back for money and power.

or even if he stabs his friends in the back for some imagined future and doing what is "right". he still stabbed his friends in the back. i dont feel any sypathy for his feeling bad over it.

Wastrel
05-23-2007, 02:47 PM
How did he bring about Cap's death?

i didnt say he did. i said that it was one of the results of all of the bullshit he brought about.

WinstonWolf
05-23-2007, 02:49 PM
HELL YEAH!!! :cool:

Is that Susan Ward?

Jerome Gibbons
05-23-2007, 02:51 PM
i didnt say he did. i said that it was one of the results of all of the bullshit he brought about.

And I'm asking, how?

Wastrel
05-23-2007, 02:52 PM
And I'm asking, how?
well for one he spearheaded the operations that beat cap down until he surrendered which gave the assassins the opportunity.

Marcdachamp
05-23-2007, 02:53 PM
i predict that bucky will get ahold of the time travel equipment that skull is deveopling and go back and save steve and sacrifice himself. however, that wont happen untill after he has killed tony in the present and realized he has made a huge mistake.

I really hope it's not that predictable. Keep Cap dead. Bucky's becoming much stronger for it.

Jerome Gibbons
05-23-2007, 02:56 PM
well for one he spearheaded the operations that beat cap down until he surrendered which gave the assassins the opportunity.

Cap wasn't beaten. He surrendered. They were about to win when he did that. He was killed under orders of the Red Skull, who had nothing to do with Tony or the Civil War. He was killed when he was in public, about to enter the courthouse where he would be tried, but that doesn't mean anything. The Red Skull could have had him killed while he was out jogging, or on his way to the store.

Albert
05-23-2007, 02:57 PM
I really hope it's not that predictable. Keep Cap dead. Bucky's becoming much stronger for it.

I agree, but I think we all know Cap is coming back eventually. Isn't...he? :cry:

Kingsumo
05-23-2007, 03:10 PM
I agree, but I think we all know Cap is coming back eventually. Isn't...he? :cry:


Sadly, I am sure he will. Quite a few people made jokes about him returning before a movie comes out. I tend to agree with this assessment.

I just hope that when they do bring him back, it was better then the way the did superman.

wholaughslast
05-23-2007, 03:12 PM
absolutely loved this issue, i look forward to reading cap so much now. thanks bru.

the ending too, holy fuck, intense.

Albert
05-23-2007, 03:14 PM
Sadly, I am sure he will. Quite a few people made jokes about him returning before a movie comes out. I tend to agree with this assessment.

I just hope that when they do bring him back, it was better then the way the did superman.

I think Quesada said it well in a Joe Fridays a few weeks back:


Q: Spidey616 03-11-2007 04:19 PM

Now that everyone's talking about the death of Captain America, do you feel that the concept of "comic book deaths" trivializes death in general? It seems like the past year in particular has its fair share of character resurrections such as Thor, Captain Marvel, and Spider-Man in 2006, who barely stayed dead for three issues. And do you believe "comic book deaths" affect very young readers in any way?

JQ: Spidey616, actually, a post right here Newsarama was pointed out to me the other day, and I thought it was wonderful and worth reposting because it really says it so much better than I ever could.

Originally Posted by kitty_tc

“What seems to be getting ignored here is the fact that heroic stories have always included an element of death and rebirth, from the time of Beowulf on to the current day. This is so prevalent and so much an essential part of the genre that Joseph Campbell, in his famous studies of the mythic heroic cycle, declared the "death-underworld-return" concept to be a requirement for any story that follows the classic formula.

“Does anyone really think that superheroes are not the modern day equivalents of Beowulf and Gilgamesh and Heracles and every other classic heroic epic? Hell, some of those classic mythical heroes are still appearing in superhero stories today. It's the same thing, a storytelling tradition that has existed for all of recorded human memory. Superheroes are just the latest iteration of an idea as old as we are.

“Mythic heroes are supposed to die, conquer death, and return. It's an integral part of the genre. Comic books didn't screw up by making their heroes die and come back, people screwed up by ever expecting otherwise.”

Kingsumo
05-23-2007, 03:17 PM
I think Quesada said it well in a Joe Fridays a few weeks back:

Hm.. Interesting take. Thanks for that.

At this point I really do hope they do it well.

WinstonWolf
05-23-2007, 03:18 PM
Hmmm. Well, you know, there are certain characters that SHOULD stay dead. Elektra, Jason Todd, and a few others SHOULD have stayed dead, there returns just cheapened the stories and mythology. I think the problem is that there are SOME characters that just don't take a hint. Stay dead. Some of them were CREATED to die, for god's sakes, and still get brought back. Oh well. At least the Spider folks tend to stay dead, for the most part.

Blandy vs Terrorism
05-23-2007, 03:20 PM
Hmmm. Well, you know, there are certain characters that SHOULD stay dead. Elektra, Jason Todd, and a few others SHOULD have stayed dead, there returns just cheapened the stories and mythology. I think the problem is that there are SOME characters that just don't take a hint. Stay dead. Some of them were CREATED to die, for god's sakes, and still get brought back. Oh well. At least the Spider folks tend to stay dead, for the most part.

Like who? Aunt May? Uncle Ben?

WinstonWolf
05-23-2007, 03:22 PM
Like who? Aunt May? Uncle Ben?

Aunt May should have stayed dead. Uncle Ben is dead (thank GOD). Kraven the Hunter, there's really no way he's coming back from that one. Although we did see Jason Todd, who has no super strength get beaten senseless with a crowbar and blown up, and Magneto get his head taken off, all it takes is one retcon. Oh yeah, Bart Hamilton won't be back, I doubt anyone even remembers him. Jason Macendale is a goner, Jean De Wolff, Ned Leeds, Harry Osborn, etc.

Albert
05-23-2007, 03:23 PM
Aunt May should have stayed dead. Uncle Ben is dead (thank GOD). Kraven the Hunter, there's really no way he's coming back from that one. Although we did see Jason Todd, who has no super strength get beaten senseless with a crowbar and blown up, and Magneto get his head taken off, all it takes is one retcon. Oh yeah, Bart Hamilton won't be back, I doubt anyone even remembers him. Jason Macendale is a goner, Jean De Wolff, Ned Leeds, Harry Osborn, etc.

Gwen Stacy!

Blandy vs Terrorism
05-23-2007, 03:23 PM
Aunt May should have stayed dead. Uncle Ben is dead (thank GOD). Kraven the Hunter, there's really no way he's coming back from that one. Although we did see Jason Todd, who has no super strength get beaten senseless with a crowbar and blown up, and Magneto get his head taken off, all it takes is one retcon. Oh yeah, Bart Hamilton won't be back, I doubt anyone even remembers him. Jason Macendale is a goner, Jean De Wolff, Ned Leeds, Harry Osborn, etc.

Have you been reading Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man?

Donal DeLay
05-23-2007, 03:24 PM
Jon better have money for my ticket for WWChi 09 ready.

WinstonWolf
05-23-2007, 03:28 PM
Have you been reading Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man?

A little bit. But isn't that an ALTERNATE reality Uncle Ben? Even Marvel wouldn't be so stupid as to revive the real Uncle Ben.

Blandy vs Terrorism
05-23-2007, 03:36 PM
A little bit. But isn't that an ALTERNATE reality Uncle Ben? Even Marvel wouldn't be so stupid as to revive the real Uncle Ben.

Could be. I only read a couple issues, since I had to drop the book shortly after.

Albert
05-23-2007, 03:36 PM
It is indeed an alternate reality Uncle Ben. Which is a fairly ridiculous thing to type.

Jerome Gibbons
05-23-2007, 03:39 PM
It is indeed an alternate reality Uncle Ben. Which is a fairly ridiculous thing to type.

It's one of the things that have kept me away from FNSM.

Master Jack Rabbitt
05-23-2007, 04:21 PM
Great issue.

Vonn Hennigar
05-23-2007, 04:54 PM
What a spectacular fucking issue. But damn it, i WANT a Captain America funeral issue :mad:

Make it a one-shot whatever, seems like a shame to just hint at one and never really show it.

Great final tease with one seriously pissed off Bucky and you got another 10/10 book from Bru/Steve and Mike.

Now if only i could figure out what the hell the Red Skull is planning. :?

bartleby
05-23-2007, 05:09 PM
What a spectacular fucking issue. But damn it, i WANT a Captain America funeral issue :mad:

Make it a one-shot whatever, seems like a shame to just hint at one and never really show it.


I think they were wise to avoid the funeral issue as there's really no way to do it without it being a complete cliche.

Vonn Hennigar
05-23-2007, 05:11 PM
I think they were wise to avoid the funeral issue as there's really no way to do it without it being a complete cliche.

I demand row upon row of people wearing long-underwear in a church moping about for 22 pages.

The critics be damned!

manbearpig
05-23-2007, 05:36 PM
I'm SO PISSED my comic book store didn't have any when I went today.

tavella
05-23-2007, 10:29 PM
What a spectacular fucking issue. But damn it, i WANT a Captain America funeral issue :mad:

The funeral is going to be in Fallen Son #5, is my understanding.

Ben
05-24-2007, 12:15 AM
It's one of the things that have kept me away from FNSM.
It was a really good story. You shouldn't base your buying decisions on how ridiculous it is to type their premises.

Dan
05-24-2007, 08:40 AM
That was another incredible issue. Especially the end.

Ben
05-24-2007, 08:50 AM
Swing and a miss...I got enough of Tony as the villain in ASM, and I don't want to read about it in another book.I don't think Bucky wanting to MURDER someone makes Tony the villain.

Jef UK
05-24-2007, 09:17 AM
A little bit. But isn't that an ALTERNATE reality Uncle Ben? Even Marvel wouldn't be so stupid as to revive the real Uncle Ben.


It is indeed an alternate reality Uncle Ben. Which is a fairly ridiculous thing to type.

In comicbookdom, that's the same as bringing a dead character back to life. Alternate universe versions tromping around in the 616 totally count. Totally.

Ben
05-24-2007, 09:18 AM
In comicbookdom, that's the same as bringing a dead character back to life. Alternate universe versions tromping around in the 616 totally count. Totally.IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!

By your logic, they already brought back Uncle Ben several times in What If...?!!!

Jef UK
05-24-2007, 09:40 AM
IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!

By your logic, they already brought back Uncle Ben several times in What If...?!!!



Alternate universe versions tromping around in the 616 totally count. Totally.


TOTALLY!

Jerome Gibbons
05-24-2007, 09:49 AM
It was a really good story. You shouldn't base your buying decisions on how ridiculous it is to type their premises.

I don't know, some of that stuff is just a little too silly for me. I read the story with the Mexican wrestlers, and all throughout I just couldn't get over how off the wall it was. Mexican wrestlers, alternate reality Uncle Ben and Green Goblin, ghost Mysterio...dunno, it's all kinda weird for me.

ds9
05-24-2007, 10:42 AM
Tony Stark will be alive and well because his movie will be out next year.

Albert
05-24-2007, 10:43 AM
I don't know, some of that stuff is just a little too silly for me. I read the story with the Mexican wrestlers, and all throughout I just couldn't get over how off the wall it was. Mexican wrestlers, alternate reality Uncle Ben and Green Goblin, ghost Mysterio...dunno, it's all kinda weird for me.

That's right! Spider-Man stories should be totally serious! Like a Merchant-Ivory period piece!

Jerome Gibbons
05-24-2007, 10:49 AM
That's right! Spider-Man stories should be totally serious! Like a Merchant-Ivory period piece!

I always did prefer when Spider-Man stories featured lavish, exotic locations and genteel characters who suffer from disillusion and tragic entanglements.

Albert
05-24-2007, 10:51 AM
I always did prefer when Spider-Man stories featured lavish, exotic locations and genteel characters who suffer from disillusion and tragic entanglements.

I knew it!

Jerome Gibbons
05-24-2007, 10:57 AM
I knew it!

To be fair, though, I also read the story with the stalker girl thing. And I thought that was pretty good.

Albert
05-24-2007, 10:59 AM
To be fair, though, I also read the story with the stalker girl thing. And I thought that was pretty good.

I knew it!