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nihilance
05-09-2007, 08:22 AM
Not Andy Kaufman or Jessica Jones.

To no great surprise the true identity is...











Clint Barton

The dialogue was great...and I already think that Bendis might have a better grip on this character than he does even on Luke Cage. And the whole bit with Wolverine asking if he was "fibbing" was great. And seeing Jessica Drew get a little sick after the purity spell was a nice little forshadowing of things to come. And Yu's art just keeps getting better and better. I can't wait to see where things go from here.

chazbot
05-09-2007, 08:26 AM
grrr... can read the spoilers when this is highlighted on the main forum page



but i wasnt surprised
will still pick up the ish.

Ryudo
05-09-2007, 08:27 AM
Damn, it's not Deadpool!

Rrgh.

Still looking forward to the issue.

Akira
05-09-2007, 08:28 AM
Not trying to be a smart ass, but genuinely curious:
Do they explain how the new ronin learned how to use a sword?

Kefky
05-09-2007, 08:28 AM
I am pleased with that choice.


And NOT just because it wasn't Jessica Jones!:D

Kefky
05-09-2007, 08:29 AM
Not trying to be a smart ass, but genuinely curious:
Do they explain how the new ronin learned how to use a sword?

I wouldn't count on it. :lol:

But it would make sense that He learned it from Swordmaster.

Evan the Shaggy
05-09-2007, 08:30 AM
I hope he goes back to being Hawkeye again though, he needs his bow and arrows.

Jonny Z
05-09-2007, 08:31 AM
goin to the comic store in an hour...

do they explain why he chooses to be ronin as opposed to just being hawkeye or *gasp* regular old clint barton?

chazbot
05-09-2007, 08:32 AM
I wouldn't count on it. :lol:

But it would make sense that He learned it from Swordmaster.

nah, really he is just the S-word master, no swords there at all.

Cth
05-09-2007, 08:36 AM
There better be a scene where he checks his sword sheath to make sure it's removable in case someone slips him an exploding sword.

Kefky
05-09-2007, 08:38 AM
There better be a scene where he checks his sword sheath to make sure it's removable in case someone slips him an exploding sword.

Hee.

nihilance
05-09-2007, 08:41 AM
goin to the comic store in an hour...

do they explain why he chooses to be ronin as opposed to just being hawkeye or *gasp* regular old clint barton?

Not really.

He asks why the group hasn't taken the fight to Tony directly and they state that they have to go to Japan first to retrieve someone who Cap sent into the field that needs help. When he decides to join they tell him to get his Hawkeye on and he states that he isn't Hawkeye anymore. Spiderman says it's costumes only and Wolverine has the Ronin costume in his hands. Next page they jump straight to where they were last issue during the fight with Elektra and the Hand.

Akira
05-09-2007, 08:47 AM
Not really.

He asks why the group hasn't taken the fight to Tony directly and they state that they have to go to Japan first to retrieve someone who Cap sent into the field that needs help. When he decides to join they tell him to get his Hawkeye on and he states that he isn't Hawkeye anymore. Spiderman says it's costumes only and Wolverine has the Ronin costume in his hands. Next page they jump straight to where they were last issue during the fight with Elektra and the Hand.

That's actually kinda cool.

Jonny Z
05-09-2007, 08:52 AM
Not really.

He asks why the group hasn't taken the fight to Tony directly and they state that they have to go to Japan first to retrieve someone who Cap sent into the field that needs help. When he decides to join they tell him to get his Hawkeye on and he states that he isn't Hawkeye anymore. Spiderman says it's costumes only and Wolverine has the Ronin costume in his hands. Next page they jump straight to where they were last issue during the fight with Elektra and the Hand.

that makes sense. i'm glad he explains why the costume is used :)

ZombieSpeedball
05-09-2007, 08:57 AM
I'm just happy it isn't Wong.

Foolish Mortal
05-09-2007, 09:17 AM
Not trying to be a smart ass, but genuinely curious:
Do they explain how the new ronin learned how to use a sword?

Easily explained....
They can just say the original Swordsman, (Jacques Duquesne) taught Clint how to use a sword back when they trained and worked together in the circus.

ds9
05-09-2007, 09:19 AM
Not trying to be a smart ass, but genuinely curious:
Do they explain how the new ronin learned how to use a sword?
exactly.

Mo_Soar
05-09-2007, 10:28 AM
I'd wondered if the House of M reality would be used as a backdrop for different abilities. Who knows what different things he trained for there? Clint is one of the (very few) people who remembers that reality - hence why I think he's OK with Luke Cage as leader, since he remembers that from the "other" life.

Albert
05-09-2007, 10:30 AM
Maybe he took a correspondence class on swords.

Matt Jay
05-09-2007, 10:34 AM
I dunno. I was hoping the big reveal would cure my crippling polio or something. Kind of disappointing.

Cth
05-09-2007, 11:03 AM
I'd wondered if the House of M reality would be used as a backdrop for different abilities. Who knows what different things he trained for there? Clint is one of the (very few) people who remembers that reality - hence why I think he's OK with Luke Cage as leader, since he remembers that from the "other" life.

Interesting how HoM is coming true again.

Maybe Wanda hasn't given up tinkering yet?

Cage is a leader. Spidey's ID is public. Hulk is going to be carving out his own territory after his personalities merge through meditation. Carol Danvers is a public hero. Captain America is gone/non-existant. FF is missing Reed and Sue. Wolverine in charge of SHIELD (now it's Tony) Princess Ororo and King Tchalla.

Foolish Mortal
05-09-2007, 11:15 AM
I'd wondered if the House of M reality would be used as a backdrop for different abilities. Who knows what different things he trained for there? Clint is one of the (very few) people who remembers that reality - hence why I think he's OK with Luke Cage as leader, since he remembers that from the "other" life.
Like I said above, just say the Swordsman taught him back when they were working together. No need to make it overly complicated.

Evan the Shaggy
05-09-2007, 11:22 AM
Yeah, in terms of Ronin using the sword.

Hawkeye trains about 4-6 hours everyday just to keep up. I'm pretty sure he's at least capable with almost every weapon he gets his hands on. Though hopefully he'll start using the bow and arrows again soon.

I'm more confused about his line of "Do they always banter like this?" Uhmmm Hawkeye wouldn't know that? He's fought with Spidey dozens of times. Sorry, just letting the inner fanboy out.

Ryudo
05-09-2007, 11:29 AM
Yeah, in terms of Ronin using the sword.

Hawkeye trains about 4-6 hours everyday just to keep up. I'm pretty sure he's at least capable with almost every weapon he gets his hands on. Though hopefully he'll start using the bow and arrows again soon.

I'm more confused about his line of "Do they always banter like this?" Uhmmm Hawkeye wouldn't know that? He's fought with Spidey dozens of times. Sorry, just letting the inner fanboy out.

Probably talking about the team in general, as it is a pretty much new iteration of the Avengers.

chazbot
05-09-2007, 11:36 AM
Honestly, I think people assume he has fought alongside Spidey more than he has.
Short of major events, I don't remember him showing up in Marvel Team-Up much or helping out take on the Sinister Six. Plus, it could be him making his smart-ass comment to try and top Spideys....
I'm sure Bendis knows better than us, at least this time.

Brad N.
05-09-2007, 01:06 PM
Not trying to be a smart ass, but genuinely curious:
Do they explain how the new ronin learned how to use a sword?

You do know the Swordsman trained Clint Barton in their early days, right?

Brad N.
05-09-2007, 01:07 PM
Very happy to not be wrong this time.

Marcdachamp
05-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Honestly, I think people assume he has fought alongside Spidey more than he has.
Short of major events, I don't remember him showing up in Marvel Team-Up much or helping out take on the Sinister Six. Plus, it could be him making his smart-ass comment to try and top Spideys....
I'm sure Bendis knows better than us, at least this time.

Untold Tales of Spider-Man is really the only example I can think of, and that was, like, a decade ago in Marvel time.

Joe Henderson
05-09-2007, 02:12 PM
Dug the reveal, and all the dialogue and character moments and the art, but dear lord is this arc moving at a snail's pace. A lot is happening but absolutely nothing at the same time. And Spider-man's not the only one getting sick of ninjas...

Garra
05-09-2007, 02:30 PM
Anyone who has seen any of the American Ninja series of movies knows how to use a sword omg.

I mean come on, now adays, who doesnt! :lol:

Although the person who is Ronin would not been my first choice I dont mind it one bit and it is good to have him on the team. I hope he keeps the Ronin duds myself and really takes on the role, adds to it and makes it his own.

For the first time ever this character is interesting to me.

Hawkdevil
05-09-2007, 02:31 PM
So I haven't read the issue, and I haven't read any of these posts... but my guess is Falcon... Now I'm gonna read to see if I'm right. (and if I am, this will look like a lie...)

Hawkdevil
05-09-2007, 02:31 PM
Huh. Nevermind... :sad:

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
05-09-2007, 02:35 PM
Loved this issue, propbably my fave post-CW ish yet. Loved the reveal, great dialouge, nice action, and YU's art just keeps getting better. This is the reveal I wanted, and I loved how it was done.

Corwin: Bear Fighter
05-09-2007, 02:44 PM
This wasn't a surprise to me, but I'm pretty ecstatic to have him on the team.

His ability to use a sword didn't even come into question with me. I just naturally assumed that he learned it from the Swordsman back when they were in the circus.

Foolish Mortal
05-09-2007, 02:54 PM
You do know the Swordsman trained Clint Barton in their early days, right?
Yeah I mentioned this twice already. ;)

Garra
05-09-2007, 02:57 PM
Yeah I mentioned this twice already. ;)

pfft as if watching American Ninja didnt help any.

Mo_Soar
05-09-2007, 03:10 PM
Not only do I know about Swordsman, I know about the slightly altered origin with Trickshot taking a more central role. It's not the sword use so much, as I'd give the character the benefits of really good hand/eye coordination and aim - sort of like his Ultimates counterpart. I'd also give him the nod for being better than your average MU regular human at hand-to-hand. But he's not a "ninja" and never has been.

As explanations go, I'd like to see one - it can be fairly minor and somewhat "hand-wave-y" but I'd still like to see the point addressed.

Garra
05-09-2007, 03:13 PM
Not only do I know about Swordsman, I know about the slightly altered origin with Trickshot taking a more central role. It's not the sword use so much, as I'd give the character the benefits of really good hand/eye coordination and aim - sort of like his Ultimates counterpart. I'd also give him the nod for being better than your average MU regular human at hand-to-hand. But he's not a "ninja" and never has been.

As explanations go, I'd like to see one - it can be fairly minor and somewhat "hand-wave-y" but I'd still like to see the point addressed.

in this issue you get this. someone almost spilled it word for word earlier in this thread, but they explain the costume, and you explained the sword play and the hand to hand.

Foolish Mortal
05-09-2007, 03:17 PM
Not only do I know about Swordsman, I know about the slightly altered origin with Trickshot taking a more central role. It's not the sword use so much, as I'd give the character the benefits of really good hand/eye coordination and aim - sort of like his Ultimates counterpart. I'd also give him the nod for being better than your average MU regular human at hand-to-hand. But he's not a "ninja" and never has been.
Who says he's a "ninja"? A 'Ronin' is a masterless samurai, not a ninja.

In addition to his knowledge of the sword, Clint also trained extensively with Captain America to beef up his martial arts skills.

If he's just wearing the Ronin garb and knows how to use a sword, and can handle himself in hand-to-hand combat, then that's really all he needs to pull it off.

Mo_Soar
05-09-2007, 03:20 PM
in this issue you get this. someone almost spilled it word for word earlier in this thread, but they explain the costume, and you explained the sword play and the hand to hand.

Thank you, but I've read the issue myself, and I'm still looking for an explanation. Even Clint is somewhat surprised about the ninja thing.

I also understand that because he's wearing the costume, which Echo wore as Ronin and a ninja, does not mean HE will be a ninja or call himself one. I'm sort of curious what he WILL be as the title goes on. Weapons other than a sword? No bow? He's by no means the best fighter on the team, and I don't think he's going to be a leader for the team, not with Luke Cage currently leader.

Garra
05-09-2007, 03:25 PM
Thank you, but I've read the issue myself, and I'm still looking for an explanation. Even Clint is somewhat surprised about the ninja thing.

I also understand that because he's wearing the costume, which Echo wore as Ronin and a ninja, does not mean HE will be a ninja or call himself one. I'm sort of curious what he WILL be as the title goes on. Weapons other than a sword? No bow? He's by no means the best fighter on the team, and I don't think he's going to be a leader for the team, not with Luke Cage currently leader.

than I dont understand your earlier question. He isnt claiming to be a ninja, as you saw in the issue he put it on because he needed a costume and it was there is all. I seriously doubt that is to become his new persona for any real length of time.





Matter of fact I predict we will have special annual appearances by new Ronins from here on out. It will be become the "cool thing" to do in the marvel Uni. Screw appearing on the Late Show, Im gonna be the next Ronin!


Dibs on Speed Ball being next years Ronin, make your bets now.

Master Jack Rabbitt
05-09-2007, 03:30 PM
I was very pleased with this reveal.

Kefky
05-09-2007, 04:25 PM
Well, I enjoyed the reveal, and thought it was nicely done. I also thought Bendis wrote a very good Hawkeye. But I gotta agree with Mo that we need some explanations here. Yes, it makes sense that Hawkeye would have learned how to use a sword from the Swordsman. And it makes sense that he'd adapt a "ronin" identity since he's trying to find a new direction for his life. But I wanna hear the characters say this. It shouldn't be something for us to figure out for ourselves.

Same for Cage being the leader of this team, and Strange being a part of it at all. Sure we could come up with a thousand explanations for that, but it bothers me that we don't actually hear it in the story. This makes me fear that we'll also be getting a half-assed origin story for the new Ultron in mighty avengers.

Either way, it was a solid issue, and I'll remain optimistic for the conspiracy stuff. I thought it was interesting that both avengers teams essentially have the same goal now and don't even know it.

jadailyTCU
05-09-2007, 04:28 PM
Exactly as I figured all along. Absolutely no surprise here.

Great issue. Can't wait to read more.

Also, now I really wanna see the Thunderbolts go after the New Avengers. Again.

changingshades
05-09-2007, 04:43 PM
Not trying to be a smart ass, but genuinely curious:
Do they explain how the new ronin learned how to use a sword?

they don't but he was trained by the original Swordsman so it would follow that he'd know a little bit of sword play

Kefky
05-09-2007, 04:49 PM
they don't but he was trained by the original Swordsman so it would follow that he'd know a little bit of sword play

Dude, do you have any idea how many people have said that in this thread already? :lol:

Joe Henderson
05-09-2007, 04:51 PM
Well, I enjoyed the reveal, and thought it was nicely done. I also thought Bendis wrote a very good Hawkeye. But I gotta agree with Mo that we need some explanations here. Yes, it makes sense that Hawkeye would have learned how to use a sword from the Swordsman. And it makes sense that he'd adapt a "ronin" identity since he's trying to find a new direction for his life. But I wanna hear the characters say this. It shouldn't be something for us to figure out for ourselves.

Man, I just want them to get the fuck out of Japan and for the plot to move forward. Stop trying to add extra shit in! :)

Jet
05-09-2007, 04:54 PM
Wow, I am surprised how many people like the art, I considered dropping the book because of it but the writing is keeping me on board for now.

changingshades
05-09-2007, 05:27 PM
Dude, do you have any idea how many people have said that in this thread already? :lol:

yeah well...so's your face

I'm sorry he's the only nerd on the planet that didn't know who trained Clint Barton :D

Hock
05-09-2007, 06:21 PM
Let's face facts most of us saw this reveal coming from miles away, so it wasn't a big shock.

It was handled very well I thought, and things worked out well I thought, it made sense for Clint to come back to Strange.

A.Huerta
05-09-2007, 06:25 PM
Wow, I am surprised how many people like the art, I considered dropping the book because of it but the writing is keeping me on board for now.

you are in the minority. Yu is one of the best artists in the industry.

Master Jack Rabbitt
05-09-2007, 06:47 PM
Wow, I am surprised how many people like the art, I considered dropping the book because of it but the writing is keeping me on board for now.

Yeah, I'm actually not a big fan, either. He draws good action scenes, but I don't like his faces.

daMatt
05-09-2007, 07:50 PM
Did anyone mention Clint was trained by the Swordsman? :lol: Nunchucks might be more out of his expertise. The way the story has progressed, Clint/Ronin didn't have much choice in terms of gear/weaponary when he accompanied the team to Japan.

Now that Ronin's identity has been revealed, I'm looking forward to how Clint fits into the team. Will he assume leadership role? Will the team look to him in tight spots? He is a changed man since Disassemble and House of M.

New Avengers creative team, Great job and Thanks.

PeterSparker
05-09-2007, 08:31 PM
Maybe the reveal wasn't a shock, but it was deftly handled. This was a great issue. Post Civil War (and post HoM) has a great upside in front of it and Bendis seems to be very much on top of it all now. HoM and CW were both ultimately undewhelming to me, but the ground work layed has proved to be quite fertile. The two Avengers books are hitting on all cylinders, and this issue was a gem. The humor was lol funny, Luke was spot on, the whole interplay between he and Clint was authentic, and needed. Everyone was on, and a lot was made clear in the process, the arguments fleshed out on both sides, which was also needed. Peter's line about how they are "Cap's team"... sniff

And I definitely dig Yu's work, in this issue especially.

Great job Brian, you're putting your biggest stamp yet on the MU and this is great stuff right now. Overturning the status quo maybe ruffled some feathers, and maybe didn't always deliver as it should've from the big players at Marvel over the last few years. Some great stuff along the way, no question there, great ideas and bold thinking, but sometimes seeming as though things were also a little shaky at the same time. But now that we're on the other side, awesome, truly awesome.

Bendis and Millar did some of the heavy lifting in the high profile stories that effected everything, then Jenkins, JMS, Brubaker, Pak, Fraction, Way, et al [and whoever I'm forgetting, and all the editors too!] have made the most of the new landscape. But Brian is at the top of his game in the 616 with these two books right now. The big picture looking more thought out than maybe given credit for originally, and there should be some more good stuff coming as a result. cool

THWIP!
05-09-2007, 08:41 PM
Maybe the reveal wasn't a shock, but it was deftly handled. This was a great issue. Post Civil War (and post HoM) has a great upside in front of it and Bendis seems to be very much on top of it all now. HoM and CW were both ultimately undewhelming to me, but the ground work layed has proved to be quite fertile. The two Avengers books are hitting on all cylinders, and this issue was a gem. The humor was lol funny, Luke was spot on, the whole interplay between he and Clint was authentic, and needed. Everyone was on, and a lot was made clear in the process, the arguments fleshed out on both sides, which was also needed. Peter's line about how they are "Cap's team"... sniff

And I definitely dig Yu's work, in this issue especially.

Great job Brian, you're putting your biggest stamp yet on the MU and this is great stuff right now. Overturning the status quo maybe ruffled some feathers, and maybe didn't always deliver as it should've from the big players at Marvel over the last few years. Some great stuff along the way, no question there, great ideas and bold thinking, but sometimes seeming as though things were also a little shaky at the same time. But now that we're on the other side, awesome, truly awesome.

Bendis and Millar did some of the heavy lifting in the high profile stories that effected everything, then Jenkins, JMS, Brubaker, Pak, Fraction, Way, et al [and whoever I'm forgetting, and all the editors too!] have made the most of the new landscape. But Brian is at the top of his game in the 616 with these two books right now. The big picture looking more thought out than maybe given credit for originally, and there should be some more good stuff coming as a result. cool
This is why I love the Marvel Universe and why I think Bendis is one of the best writers working today. He just makes me love comics so much more.

Fusion
05-09-2007, 09:08 PM
This is why I love the Marvel Universe and why I think Bendis is one of the best writers working today. He just makes me love comics so much more.

As long as Luke Cage gets to do to Tony Stark what he did to Electra (Who I think is as good as dead in the next issue which was described as "Captain America #25ish"). Then I am totally with you on that!

Fusion
05-09-2007, 09:10 PM
Exactly as I figured all along. Absolutely no surprise here.

Great issue. Can't wait to read more.

Also, now I really wanna see the Thunderbolts go after the New Avengers. Again.

I would LOVE to see that smackdown!

SteveZegers
05-10-2007, 03:04 AM
This is really the best choice. Anything else would have been a bit of a let down.

adamgreenberger
05-10-2007, 05:23 AM
Wow...I was actually right about this.

Ryudo
05-10-2007, 06:46 AM
10/10

The Hodag
05-10-2007, 08:09 AM
Swordsman trained or no, it seems a little weird for the team to say they need Hawkeye...and then give him a sword. Kinda like if you asked Iron Man for a hand, and he said, "Sure, but I'll just be along as tech guy. No armor." At the very least, you'd be kinda pissed. And sure, Hawkeye can swing a mean sword, but if you really need him, don't you want him with his weapon of choice?

Bitch, pick up ya damn bow and arrows!

Foolish Mortal
05-10-2007, 08:17 AM
Swordsman trained or no, it seems a little weird for the team to say they need Hawkeye...and then give him a sword. Kinda like if you asked Iron Man for a hand, and he said, "Sure, but I'll just be along as tech guy. No armor." At the very least, you'd be kinda pissed. And sure, Hawkeye can swing a mean sword, but if you really need him, don't you want him with his weapon of choice?

Bitch, pick up ya damn bow and arrows!
Have you forgotten the years when Clint was Goliath? It's not like this is the first time he's had a different hero identity.

And besides, Kate Bishop on the Young Avengers is currently using the Hawkeye name. So until they have a storyline to resolve that, Clint is probably going to stay as Ronin for awhile.

chazbot
05-10-2007, 08:20 AM
Bitch, pick up ya damn bow and arrows!

Swearing off being Hawkeye kind of means you aren't carrying any arrows around with you.
So if a sword is the only thing available to you on a trip you make immediately, that is what you use.

Kefky
05-10-2007, 08:23 AM
I like the new identity. I hope it sticks for a while.

Foolish Mortal
05-10-2007, 08:24 AM
Swearing off being Hawkeye kind of means you aren't carrying any arrows around with you.
So if a sword is the only thing available to you on a trip you make immediately, that is what you use.
Actually, Samurai were trained to be skilled in archery as well as swordsmanship.

The Hodag
05-10-2007, 08:25 AM
Have you forgotten the years when Clint was Goliath? It's not like this is the first time he's had a different hero identity.

Don't get me wrong - they should've been pissed at Clint back then too!

Come to think of it, though...how monstrously fucking cool would it have been if he'd Goliathed up with a proportionately-sized bow? He'd be blastin' the crap outta Skrull warships!

Seriously, has anyone done this before? Someone should do this.

chazbot
05-10-2007, 08:28 AM
Actually, Samurai were trained to be skilled in archery as well as swordsmanship.

Yeh... but the box with the Ronin suit in it didn't have any arrows. They aren't going to make a stop at Academy to pick some up. This is happening rather quickly.
And I am totally in support of another identity change at the end of the next ish.

The Hodag
05-10-2007, 08:33 AM
Swearing off being Hawkeye kind of means you aren't carrying any arrows around with you.

What, he could still be a bow 'n' arrow guy under a different name!

Hmm, and I just had a conspiratorial thought. I wonder if Bendis has always liked Hawkeye in theory...but hated his purple costume. So: he sets him up as Ronin for a while, and then when he's ready to send him back to the Hawkeye gig, he either gives him a wholly redesigned costume or something that's based more on the Ronin design.

Seems clever enough. The only problem? Hawkeye's purple costumes owns.

:x

chazbot
05-10-2007, 08:38 AM
What, he could still be a bow 'n' arrow guy under a different name!



Maybe he will be in the future. But as the comic read, it is Clint coming to talk to Strange. Finding out that crap is going on, wanting to help. Told it is tights only, he has no costume (or accesories with him) and is given the Ronin suit and sword for the trip. And then, they are there. Maybe when they get back he will grab a bow and arrow, maybe he will grab a shield with a big star on it, we will see.
But right now, there should be no ballyhoo about Clint not shooting a bow and arrow, he doesn't have one available to him for this impromptu mission

The Hodag
05-10-2007, 08:41 AM
But right now, there should be no ballyhoo about Clint not shooting a bow and arrow, he doesn't have one available to him for this impromptu mission

You'd think the Master of Mystic Arts could hook a brutha up with a bow and arrow.











I'm just screwin' around. :twisted:

jadailyTCU
05-10-2007, 08:56 AM
I wanna see Giant Ronin now. It is pretty well known that Hawkeye still had some access to some Pym Particles. Bet he hid some away.

Foolish Mortal
05-10-2007, 09:07 AM
I'm fairly sure that Clint likely has some old bows and equipment stored somewhere.

nihilance
05-10-2007, 09:12 AM
Swordsman trained or no, it seems a little weird for the team to say they need Hawkeye...and then give him a sword. Kinda like if you asked Iron Man for a hand, and he said, "Sure, but I'll just be along as tech guy. No armor." At the very least, you'd be kinda pissed. And sure, Hawkeye can swing a mean sword, but if you really need him, don't you want him with his weapon of choice?

Bitch, pick up ya damn bow and arrows!

Hawkeye can contribute in many ways without picking up a bow. He's smart, he's clever, he has many leadership qualities, and he's pissed at all the right people....just like Iron Man could still contribute handsomely to a team even if he couldn't or wouldn't wear the armor. Hell the Avengers coasted off his tech for years without him even being on the team at times.

A character is not the sum of their powers and nothing else.

The Hodag
05-10-2007, 09:49 AM
Hawkeye can contribute in many ways without picking up a bow. He's smart, he's clever, he has many leadership qualities, and he's pissed at all the right people....just like Iron Man could still contribute handsomely to a team even if he couldn't or wouldn't wear the armor. Hell the Avengers coasted off his tech for years without him even being on the team at times.

A character is not the sum of their powers and nothing else.

Right, well I was mostly goofin' around before anyway, but I DO think that because this was a specific combat mission they were dragging Hawkeye along on, it would've made sense for him to be at peak combat potency. Hence, bow and arrows.

Maybe then the Avengers wouldn't have had their asses handed to 'em. :twisted:

A.Huerta
05-10-2007, 09:51 AM
Sooo... Ronin is Clint, huh? Thats interesting. :lol:

Evan the Shaggy
05-10-2007, 09:57 AM
My guess on what the big reveal is that will change the MU for next issue:

Its either the reveal of who or what is behind the big conspiracy that is pulling all the strings in the recent Marvel events or Clint becoming Captain America.

Relaunched
05-10-2007, 10:24 AM
In the Solo Avengers series (Also in the Ultimate universe if it matters) Clint made it pretty clear that his ability lies in his accuracy and that the bow is merely a tool for that. He's just as accurate at throwing items.

Jerome Gibbons
05-10-2007, 11:20 AM
I like the new identity. I hope it sticks for a while.

Me too. I hope he keeps wearing the costume, and keeps being a part of the team.

I really liked the reveal. Exactly who I wanted it to be.

Kefky
05-10-2007, 01:07 PM
My guess on what the big reveal is that will change the MU for next issue:

Its either the reveal of who or what is behind the big conspiracy that is pulling all the strings in the recent Marvel events or Clint becoming Captain America.

Actually, judging from the solicits for issue 32, it'll definitely the former. Although I suppose Bendy could still throw in the latter in there somewhere. :)

Freeway
05-10-2007, 01:27 PM
In the Solo Avengers series (Also in the Ultimate universe if it matters) Clint made it pretty clear that his ability lies in his accuracy and that the bow is merely a tool for that. He's just as accurate at throwing items.

Basically, Hawkeye is a sane Bullseye.

Jerome Gibbons
05-10-2007, 01:31 PM
Basically, Hawkeye is a sane Bullseye.

Is he exactly as Bullseye? I mean, does he have a similar range of abilities? Can he actually throw anything with perfect accuracy (I know the Ultimate version does)? Because if he is and does and can, that's pretty cool. They should totally have them show off at some point.

Kefky
05-10-2007, 01:37 PM
Is he exactly as Bullseye? I mean, does he have a similar range of abilities? Can he actually throw anything with perfect accuracy (I know the Ultimate version does)? Because if he is and does and can, that's pretty cool. They should totally have them show off at some point.

I think people just really, really want him to be that now. Well, the people in this thread, anyway. :)

Jerome Gibbons
05-10-2007, 01:43 PM
I think people just really, really want him to be that now. Well, the people in this thread, anyway. :)

Yeah, I don't know much about his background or anything, but I've never heard about him having super-accuracy like Bullseye and stuff. I thought he was just supposed to be a really good bowman, but I won't deny that I think making him like Bullseye and his Ultimate counterpart would be cool.

Kefky
05-10-2007, 01:44 PM
Yeah, I don't know much about his background or anything, but I've never heard about him having super-accuracy like Bullseye and stuff. I thought he was just supposed to be a really good bowman, but I won't deny that I think making him like Bullseye and his Ultimate counterpart would be cool.

I wouldn't put it past him, anyway, but it's definitely not something that's been stated anywhere.

Relaunched
05-10-2007, 02:26 PM
Yeah, I don't know much about his background or anything, but I've never heard about him having super-accuracy like Bullseye and stuff. I thought he was just supposed to be a really good bowman, but I won't deny that I think making him like Bullseye and his Ultimate counterpart would be cool.

It definitely has been stated. The old issues of Solo Avengers had Hawkeye going up against a variety of projectile themed enemies. They were terrible (one thru cue balls or something). Hawkeye took them out by throwing items back at them. Even took out a flying (deadly?) cue ball by chucking an arrow at it.

It was a terrible series, but he has explained and showed more than once his ability wasn't limited to his bow.

And isn't Bullseye's uncanny ability just do to practice? I mean, he has no real poweres or anthing. Although I remember he blinded some guy by spitting a tooth at him.

mczapp
05-10-2007, 02:55 PM
I'm glad Clint is back. The New Avengers issue where he first returned and went to go find Wanda is probably my favorite issue of the series (which I generally disliked beforehand). However, yeah, I'm not buying Clint using a sword and being able to go up against a legion of ninjas without getting killed. Saying "he trained with the Swordsman and Captain America" isn't really cutting it for me -- practically every Avenger trained with Captain America at some point. It doesn't turn you into Taskmaster overnight. I'd love to see him use a bow with the Ronin costume.

I'm looking forward to when/if this series gets away from "whiney babies hanging out in an abandoned house complaining about Tony Stark."

Joe Henderson
05-10-2007, 04:28 PM
Anyone else notice that Spider-woman doesn't appear 'pure of intention', since immediately after the Doc casts his spell she's clutching her chest when everyone else has big grins on their faces?

Sorry to distract from the riveting conversation of when Swordsman taught Hawkeye to use a sword. :)

Garra
05-10-2007, 04:34 PM
Anyone else notice that Spider-woman doesn't appear 'pure of intention', since immediately after the Doc casts his spell she's clutching her chest when everyone else has big grins on their faces?

Sorry to distract from the riveting conversation of when Swordsman taught Hawkeye to use a sword. :)

Shes a woman man. Women cant be pure of intention, its against thier very nature, other wise they would burst into flames and burn.

Thats why if you tie thier hands and feet together and throw them into a lake they sink instead of float naturally.

TheKraken
05-10-2007, 04:46 PM
Anyone else notice that Spider-woman doesn't appear 'pure of intention', since immediately after the Doc casts his spell she's clutching her chest when everyone else has big grins on their faces?

Sorry to distract from the riveting conversation of when Swordsman taught Hawkeye to use a sword. :)

Luke & Wolverine didn't look to happy, either. But I put that down to them having spooky dark pasts... Some one like Peter Parker's always been a squeaky-clean good guy, but people like those three probably have a bad reaction to purity mumbo jumbo. :)

chazbot
05-10-2007, 04:52 PM
Anyone else notice that Spider-woman doesn't appear 'pure of intention', since immediately after the Doc casts his spell she's clutching her chest when everyone else has big grins on their faces?

Sorry to distract from the riveting conversation of when Swordsman taught Hawkeye to use a sword. :)

She wasn't fucked up totally by the spell like Strange indicated. I think it was showing that she is conflicted and not completely sure of herself, and that's why she was slightly bothered.
But we've known that from previous issues

Jerome Gibbons
05-10-2007, 04:56 PM
It definitely has been stated. The old issues of Solo Avengers had Hawkeye going up against a variety of projectile themed enemies. They were terrible (one thru cue balls or something). Hawkeye took them out by throwing items back at them. Even took out a flying (deadly?) cue ball by chucking an arrow at it.

It was a terrible series, but he has explained and showed more than once his ability wasn't limited to his bow.

And isn't Bullseye's uncanny ability just do to practice? I mean, he has no real poweres or anthing. Although I remember he blinded some guy by spitting a tooth at him.

Bullseye's thing is not a superpower thing, but it's one of those things that can't happen outside of comic books. Like Cap being 6'2" and weighing 240 lbs. while still being the strongest man on Earth. Bullseye once killed someone with a toothpick from a building across the street, for example.

Kefky
05-10-2007, 06:13 PM
Bullseye once killed someone with a toothpick from a building across the street, for example.

Hah, I don't remember that. Where?

Jerome Gibbons
05-10-2007, 06:23 PM
Hah, I don't remember that. Where?

DD: The Target. Kevin Smith really got a kick out of making him do crazy stuff like that.

Kefky
05-10-2007, 06:27 PM
DD: The Target. Kevin Smith really got a kick out of making him do crazy stuff like that.

Oh. Shame I'll probably never read that, then. I refuse to read it until marvel puts out the whole thing. :lol:

Jerome Gibbons
05-10-2007, 06:36 PM
Oh. Shame I'll probably never read that, then. I refuse to read it until marvel puts out the whole thing. :lol:

I think it's likely that won't happen. And that's not me being snarky or ribbing on Smith or anything, it's just that it's been so long since the first issue and since people stopped talking about it, it just seems like all parties involved consider it an aborted project by now. It'd be nice to see it continue, though. I actually thought the first issue was pretty good (been a while since I read it, though).

Foolish Mortal
05-10-2007, 06:44 PM
And isn't Bullseye's uncanny ability just do to practice? I mean, he has no real poweres or anthing. Although I remember he blinded some guy by spitting a tooth at him.
In comics, special skills are treated as if they were superpowers. That's how non-powered people are able to hang with superhumans.

Kefky
05-10-2007, 06:45 PM
I think it's likely that won't happen. And that's not me being snarky or ribbing on Smith or anything, it's just that it's been so long since the first issue and since people stopped talking about it, it just seems like all parties involved consider it an aborted project by now. It'd be nice to see it continue, though. I actually thought the first issue was pretty good (been a while since I read it, though).

Oddly, I remember Smith saying that he was working on it at the same time he was finishing up the black cat mini.

Maybe marvel decided it just wasn't worth the trouble anymore. :lol:

nihilance
05-11-2007, 05:56 AM
Anyone else notice that Spider-woman doesn't appear 'pure of intention', since immediately after the Doc casts his spell she's clutching her chest when everyone else has big grins on their faces?
Yeah...it's mentioned in the very first post of this thread. And like others have said her double-agent/triple-agent conflict has been a major thread in New Avengers since the first arc so it's really of no surprise.

Foolish Mortal
05-11-2007, 06:55 AM
Yeah...it's mentioned in the very first post of this thread. And like others have said her double-agent/triple-agent conflict has been a major thread in New Avengers since the first arc so it's really of no surprise.
Well, Jessica has had a shady and questionable past long before New Avengers.

nihilance
05-11-2007, 06:59 AM
Well, Jessica has had a shady and questionable past long before New Avengers.

Yeah and Hawkeye was a villain at one time too. The point is that that purity spell was to show intentions now and this is just further proof that not even Jessica is sure which side she's playing still.

Josh!
05-11-2007, 08:10 AM
I thought this issue was great. Great read, great art and great reveal. Clint showing up didn't feel forced at all (given the Maleev issue before this arc). Loved it.

dougmac
05-11-2007, 09:55 AM
Oddly, I remember Smith saying that he was working on it at the same time he was finishing up the black cat mini.

Maybe marvel decided it just wasn't worth the trouble anymore. :lol:

it reads ok as a one shot deal. Its open ended, but you can just take it as a day in the life Bullseye story.
Its not like Smith could turn down his chance for Oscar glory as Best Supporting Actor in Catch and Release to actually finish something he previously committed to and started, right?

jacoblb
05-12-2007, 09:36 PM
Clint says "Yo"?

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
05-13-2007, 06:43 AM
Clint says "Yo"?

Who, under the age of 50, doesn't say "Yo"?

Rick America
05-13-2007, 07:52 AM
Who, under the age of 50, doesn't say "Yo"?

Black Bolt?

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
05-13-2007, 07:06 PM
Black Bolt?

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Peter-Johansky/Chocolate-Chip-Cookie-on-White-Background-Photographic-Print-C12005484.jpeg

Jerome Gibbons
05-13-2007, 07:21 PM
Clint says "Yo"?

I totally figured. (http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showpost.php?p=2738557&postcount=5)

bachman
05-14-2007, 07:14 AM
I have a question that probably has already been asked, but here it is:

Dr. Strange gets stabbed through the stomach, and everybody just starts joking and fighting? No one checked on him or was concerned about him? Did they not see it happen? Or did I miss something?

nihilance
05-14-2007, 07:36 AM
I have a question that probably has already been asked, but here it is:

Dr. Strange gets stabbed through the stomach, and everybody just starts joking and fighting? No one checked on him or was concerned about him? Did they not see it happen? Or did I miss something?

They all saw the cover of the book so they weren't suprised.

Garra
05-14-2007, 07:46 AM
The Hand will simply ress him, no worries. :)

I went back and reread the ending after reading your question. I remembered him being stabbed as the last thing you saw, but your right. He recieves help in performing hari kari, and they start fighting and no one mentioned Strange, they just crack jokes.

maybe they were to overwhelmed. maybe they figure Strange is all powerful and after mumbling some words and smoking some herb he will be back brand new.

Or maybe they know something we dont know! :scared:

Esco
05-14-2007, 08:49 AM
I hate Barton.

DC Camel
05-14-2007, 09:28 AM
Have to look back at the issue but I remember only Iron Fist seeing it when it happened and everyone else too busy fighting to notice.

Gregory
05-14-2007, 11:06 AM
I have a question that probably has already been asked, but here it is:

Dr. Strange gets stabbed through the stomach, and everybody just starts joking and fighting? No one checked on him or was concerned about him? Did they not see it happen? Or did I miss something?

Hey, his name's not Dr. Mundane. Strange shit happens with the guy. They've seen him shampoo miniature giraffes into his hair.

TheKraken
05-14-2007, 11:26 AM
Who, under the age of 50, doesn't say "Yo"?

Seriously. It's not like Clint's supposed to talk like Thor or something... he's a casual, crude, regular guy...

WNCE
05-14-2007, 11:31 AM
Seriously. It's not like Clint's supposed to talk like Thor or something... he's a casual, crude, regular guy...

And he probably feels a bit insecure about what's going on, he's not used to having extra padding where he doesn't usually get it thanks to the costumes former owner.

moonspider
05-14-2007, 02:10 PM
and how did he come back from the dead??

Vonn Hennigar
05-14-2007, 03:15 PM
and how did he come back from the dead??

That happened over a year and a half ago!

Get with the program dammit!!!

Foolish Mortal
05-14-2007, 03:18 PM
and how did he come back from the dead??
Wanda did it.

Jerome Gibbons
05-14-2007, 04:18 PM
and how did he come back from the dead??

He was alive during the House of M reality, and that just sort of carried itself over to this one once Wanda returned reality to normal.

Esco
05-14-2007, 05:37 PM
Wanda was punching holes in the wall of .......no, that wasn't it. Hmmm?
Dude, I love that asian girl in your sig.

Jerome Gibbons
05-14-2007, 09:02 PM
Yeah, me too.

moonspider
05-14-2007, 09:30 PM
That happened over a year and a half ago!

Get with the program dammit!!!




i havent bought/read a comic in over a year man....cut me some slack homeslice


only recent thing i read was the young avengers first trade

Kefky
05-15-2007, 07:21 AM
i havent bought/read a comic in over a year man....cut me some slack homeslice


only recent thing i read was the young avengers first trade

Hee, you said homeslice.

Generic Poster
05-15-2007, 01:47 PM
So, why did he decide to be Ronin instead of Hawkeye? He should get the Pym Particles again and become Giant Ronin.

Vonn Hennigar
05-15-2007, 02:00 PM
So, why did he decide to be Ronin instead of Hawkeye? He should get the Pym Particles again and become Giant Ronin.

He's only been Ronin for about 15 minutes comic book time. He doesn't want to be Hawkeye anymore aka Bendis thinks bows and arrows are lame.

Generic Poster
05-15-2007, 02:17 PM
He's only been Ronin for about 15 minutes comic book time. He doesn't want to be Hawkeye anymore aka Bendis thinks bows and arrows are lame.

Fighting crime with a bow and arrow is lame, yet fighting crime with a heightened sense of smell and a red stick is cool.

moonspider
05-15-2007, 02:43 PM
Hee, you said homeslice.




fashizzle mah pizzle!

Darkhawk Fan
05-15-2007, 09:25 PM
He's only been Ronin for about 15 minutes comic book time. He doesn't want to be Hawkeye anymore aka Bendis thinks bows and arrows are lame.

Don't samurai (which include Ronin) practice Kyudo (Japanese Archery)?

Jerome Gibbons
05-15-2007, 09:31 PM
So, why did he decide to be Ronin instead of Hawkeye? He should get the Pym Particles again and become Giant Ronin.

When he shows up and meets the New Avengers for the first time, they ask him to get his costume and go with them. He says he isn't Hawkeye anymore. Wolverine is holding the Ronin gear in his hands and shows it to him, and apparently he figures, "Eh, why the hell not".

Garra
05-16-2007, 07:04 AM
When he shows up and meets the New Avengers for the first time, they ask him to get his costume and go with them. He says he isn't Hawkeye anymore. Wolverine is holding the Ronin gear in his hands and shows it to him, and apparently he figures, "Eh, why the hell not".


Imagine how ackward things could have been if Wolverine was holding some Wonder Woman Underoos in his hand.

Matthew Brown
05-16-2007, 03:44 PM
I think the Captain America issue of Fallen Son adds a lot to this.

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
05-16-2007, 04:29 PM
Agreed.

Bryan H
05-17-2007, 01:45 PM
I'm probably just an idiot, and someone else I told this to said I was in denial (though I have no care for Hawkeye or Ronin). But they never showed Ronin take his mask off, nor did they show Clint putting it on. So its possible he's not Ronin.

I know, I'm an idiot.

Master Jack Rabbitt
05-17-2007, 01:55 PM
I'm probably just an idiot, and someone else I told this to said I was in denial (though I have no care for Hawkeye or Ronin). But they never showed Ronin take his mask off, nor did they show Clint putting it on. So its possible he's not Ronin.

I know, I'm an idiot.

I'll be quite angered if they tried something like that. And there's no way in hell I see it happening.

Jerome Gibbons
05-17-2007, 03:04 PM
I'm probably just an idiot, and someone else I told this to said I was in denial (though I have no care for Hawkeye or Ronin). But they never showed Ronin take his mask off, nor did they show Clint putting it on. So its possible he's not Ronin.

I know, I'm an idiot.

...man, I really hope that doesn't happen. It'd be kinda cheap, and...I really like having Hawkeye on the New Avengers.

Welcome to the board, by the way.

Dermie
05-17-2007, 04:19 PM
The solicit specifically says that Ronin's identity is revealed in this issue, and Bendis has said the same thing on the board. Unless Bendis and the solicit are lying to us, it is him.

daMatt
05-17-2007, 05:07 PM
Now that Clint is back from the dead, I wonder if any mention of the Mockingbird will pop up?

Bryan H
05-17-2007, 07:48 PM
You're right, I'm just weird like that.

Thanks for the welcome, by the way. I'll try to not suck.

ClintP
05-17-2007, 08:10 PM
Just read NA and MA this week. Both were bad ass. I have never loved the Avengers so much as I do now. I feel ashamed...

Jerome Gibbons
05-20-2007, 08:09 PM
Heh...you know, this is going to sound really weird, but...I was rereading New Avengers #30 a second ago, and I got to the part where Dr. Strange casts that spell thing that lets the Avengers know Hawkeye's for real, and it kind of suddenly dawned on me...Peter Parker was standing there, amidst a bunch of superheroes, in his costume with his mask off, cracking wise like he usually does when he's being Spider-Man.

Like I said, I know how weird it sounds, but it's fun to sit back and take that in for a little bit. I mean, that stuff is so unlike what we've seen of Spidey during the last few decades. That he actually feels comfortable, or at least comfortable enough around all these other people to unmask himself like it's no big deal, to keep showing that side of his personality he shows only when he's alone, covered up, fighting bad guys. It's such a change in his character, such a progress.

Yeah, I'm fully aware how weird all that crap I just said sounds. You may ignore as the delusional ramblings of a madman. I hit my head pretty hard a few minutes ago, it hurts so bad.