Batman Year One

[The-Last-Man]

After being told countless times I had to read this book, I finally got around to it at the weekend, and I absolutely loved it!

I'm glad to see a comic that is now more than 20 years old still holding it's own. Miller's writing was very strong, and my favourite character from the book turned out to be Jim Gordon.

And the art! Man, this is the first David Mazzuchelli comic book I have ever seen, and I loved it, can anybody recommend any more books he has done that I can pick up?

[Dark Sasha]

Best thing Frank Miller has done, but the greatness is all David.

[ZombieSpeedball]

Year One truly is a masterpiece, and I loved it when I first read it.

[Jerome Gibbons]

It's pretty good.

[DaGetHighKnight]

This book never gets old and is a better story than most comics produced since.

I had the Hardcover with me on a Beach in Negril, Jamaica and i lent it to the security guard watching the beach and even he fucking loved it.

[Corey]

I think I like it better than Dark Knight Returns.

[Gecko]

I just read it myself recently and it was TERRIFIC!!

[Adam Witt]

After being told countless times I had to read this book, I finally got around to it at the weekend, and I absolutely loved it!

I'm glad to see a comic that is now more than 20 years old still holding it's own. Miller's writing was very strong, and my favourite character from the book turned out to be Jim Gordon.

And the art! Man, this is the first David Mazzuchelli comic book I have ever seen, and I loved it, can anybody recommend any more books he has done that I can pick up?

Mazz did a series on his own called Rubber Blanket, not sure if it's been collected in trade or not. Three issue series, if memory serves.

Miller and Mazzuchelli also teamed up for Daredevil: Born Again, which is one of my absolute favorite comics stories. I'd say it's better than Year One, maybe a little bit.

He also did a comic adaptation of Paul Auster's City of Glass novel, with Paul Karasik.

[Taki Soma]

love it

and mazzuchelli is one of my all time fave artists

[Dark Sasha]

I miss good Miller.

[The Goddamn Schweitz!]

Best Frank Miller work.

And I got my copy signed by Mazzuchelli at the New York Comic-con. Hurray!

[Taki Soma]

Mazz did a series on his own called Rubber Blanket, not sure if it's been collected in trade or not. Three issue series, if memory serves.

Miller and Mazzuchelli also teamed up for Daredevil: Born Again, which is one of my absolute favorite comics stories. I'd say it's better than Year One, maybe a little bit.

He also did a comic adaptation of Paul Auster's City of Glass novel, with Paul Karasik.

HELL.YEAH!

[The-Last-Man]

Mazz did a series on his own called Rubber Blanket, not sure if it's been collected in trade or not. Three issue series, if memory serves.

Miller and Mazzuchelli also teamed up for Daredevil: Born Again, which is one of my absolute favorite comics stories. I'd say it's better than Year One, maybe a little bit.

He also did a comic adaptation of Paul Auster's City of Glass novel, with Paul Karasik.

I had no idea they teamed up for Born Again, I think i'll have to pick that up.

Thanks man.

[jason hissong]

Mazz did a series on his own called Rubber Blanket, not sure if it's been collected in trade or not. Three issue series, if memory serves.

Miller and Mazzuchelli also teamed up for Daredevil: Born Again, which is one of my absolute favorite comics stories. I'd say it's better than Year One, maybe a little bit.

He also did a comic adaptation of Paul Auster's City of Glass novel, with Paul Karasik.

Which, like Auster's original novella, is brilliant.

[Ryan Elliott]

I miss good Miller.



Translation: "I wish Miller had stayed exactly the same for years and years without evolving as a writer. I want to read the same stuff over and over and over again."

[HCMarvel]

Translation: "I wish Miller had stayed exactly the same for years and years without evolving as a writer. I want to read the same stuff over and over and over again."

no translation: "I wish Frank Miller still wrote books I enjoy."

[Dark Sasha]

Translation: "I wish Miller had stayed exactly the same for years and years without evolving as a writer. I want to read the same stuff over and over and over again."

Oh yeah, the way he expands the plot of All Star Batman by extending the ride to the Bat cave was brilliant


no translation: "I wish Frank Miller still wrote books I enjoy."

thank you!

[FredC]

Interesting that you should say that Jim Gordon was your favorite character in the book. I think it was originally titled Jim Gordon: Year One, actually.

Anyway, I love the book, and yeah, definitely check out Born Again. One of the BEST Daredevil stories ever.

[Jerome Gibbons]

Translation: "I wish Miller had stayed exactly the same for years and years without evolving as a writer. I want to read the same stuff over and over and over again."

Nah, I think he just means he wishes Frank Miller would still write good comics.

[JBElliott]

"Year One" should have been translated to film a la Sin City instead of what we got in Batman Begins. However good you think BB was, Y1 would have been better.

[Jerome Gibbons]

"Year One" should have been translated to film a la Sin City instead of what we got in Batman Begins. However good you think BB was, Y1 would have been better.

Dunno...Year One puts a lot of emphasis on Gordon. And while there is emphasis on Batman as well, it seems it does it in such a way that Batman seems less like a full, well-rounded person and more like a force of nature, an idea, a symbol, a creature...or what have you. And while it's a pretty cool approach in comics and such, I don't know if it would go over entirely well with mainstream moviegoing audiences.

[Dark Sasha]

"Year One" should have been translated to film a la Sin City instead of what we got in Batman Begins. However good you think BB was, Y1 would have been better.

I wouldn't want it that way. It has to be something a little bit different, it can't just be a translation.

[Donal DeLay]

"Love chunks" was a classic in YO, and it's a classic ASB&RTBW.

[Jerome Gibbons]

I wouldn't want it that way. It has to be something a little bit different, it can't just be a translation.

It's worked well the two times it's been done with Miller's work (Sin City, 300). But yeah, I don't think it'd be a good idea to do it with Year One. Not that it wouldn't be a quality flick or anything.

[Ryan Elliott]

Nah, I think he just means he wishes Frank Miller would still write good comics.



And he does. What's your point?

[Gavin]

Darren Aronofsky (The Fountain, Requiem for a Dream, Pi) was trying to make Year One about the same time Warner Bros. was looking to reboot Batman, but from what he's said about it, the project bore little resemblance to the comic. Alfred was a mechanic named Al, and there was a whole lot of other weirdness. Here's a script review and another site with a whole slew of stuff about it.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=9819

http://aronofksy.tripod.com/batmany1.html

[Gavin]

Another, better, script review.

http://www.batman-on-film.com/opinion_jett_yearonereview.html

[Dark Sasha]

It's worked well the two times it's been done with Miller's work (Sin City, 300). But yeah, I don't think it'd be a good idea to do it with Year One. Not that it wouldn't be a quality flick or anything.

Yeah, but the thing is with those two are that they are the same as the comic, and that's it. I want them to pull a Kubrick once in a while.

[Jerome Gibbons]

And he does. What's your point?

That he doesn't.

[Dark Sasha]

That he doesn't.

I think he's lost it. He has reach this point in his career that he could write anything and it will sell, regardless of quality or lack of quality. Now he's working on this Al qaeda vs. Batman book, and it just sounds like such an insult.

[Ryan Elliott]

That he doesn't.



So becuase All-Star Batman isn't EXACTLY like all the rest of the Batman comics it's bad?

It's a different kind of Batman. The Dark Knight meets Sin City.

Ask Donal, he knows what's up.

[Jerome Gibbons]

I think he's lost it. He has reach this point in his career that he could write anything and it will sell, regardless of quality or lack of quality. Now he's working on this Al qaeda vs. Batman book, and it just sounds like such an insult.

Pretty much, yeah. Man, you've reminded me. That Batman vs. al-Qaeda thing is such a fucking joke.

[Jerome Gibbons]

So becuase All-Star Batman isn't EXACTLY like all the rest of the Batman comics it's bad?

No. It's bad because it's bad.


I get that you like it, and that's cool and all, but don't come on here and get all up in people's faces saying that the only reason why they don't like an artist's current work is because they want to see more of the same over and over. It's insulting and condescending. And it could be that, you know, they just don't like the current work.

[Dark Sasha]

Pretty much, yeah. Man, you've reminded me. That Batman vs. al-Qaeda thing is such a fucking joke.

It is an insult, just God.I'll let Grant take this one:

"Batman vs. Al Qaeda! It might as well be Bin Laden vs. King Kong! Or how about the sinister Al Qaeda mastermind up against a hungry Hannibal Lecter! For all the good it's likely to do. Cheering on a fictional character as he beats up fictionalized terrorists seems like a decadent indulgence when real terrorists are killing real people in the real world. I'd be so much more impressed if Frank Miller gave up all this graphic novel nonsense, joined the Army and, with a howl of undying hate, rushed headlong onto the front lines with the young soldiers who are actually risking life and limb 'vs' Al Qaeda."

[JBElliott]

Dunno...Year One puts a lot of emphasis on Gordon. And while there is emphasis on Batman as well, it seems it does it in such a way that Batman seems less like a full, well-rounded person and more like a force of nature, an idea, a symbol, a creature...or what have you. And while it's a pretty cool approach in comics and such, I don't know if it would go over entirely well with mainstream moviegoing audiences.

The emphasis on Gordon explains why something like Batman is necessary in Gotham, it makes it feel more real that way, even though it's not. This isn't as well done in Batman Begins.

Batman/Wayne isn't a full, well-rounded person. He's damages and stunted due to the death of his parents and all he has in his life is is crusade to stop things like the murder of his parents from happening to other people.

[JBElliott]

I wouldn't want it that way. It has to be something a little bit different, it can't just be a translation.

Well it would off course be different since one is a comic and one would be a film. But beyond that, there's no reason for any difference. If the story is well done in the comic it will work on film with only the most minimal changes that are necessary for the translation from comics to film.

[JBElliott]

Darren Aronofsky (The Fountain, Requiem for a Dream, Pi) was trying to make Year One about the same time Warner Bros. was looking to reboot Batman, but from what he's said about it, the project bore little resemblance to the comic. Alfred was a mechanic named Al, and there was a whole lot of other weirdness. Here's a script review and another site with a whole slew of stuff about it.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=9819

http://aronofksy.tripod.com/batmany1.html

What was really weird about it was that it was supposedly Year One, but completely different, and Miller was supposedly working on the script with Aronofsky.

[Dark Sasha]

Well it would off course be different since one is a comic and one would be a film. But beyond that, there's no reason for any difference. If the story is well done in the comic it will work on film with only the most minimal changes that are necessary for the translation from comics to film.

Yeah but don't you want something that the director actually created or just translate it from the panels?

[Gavin]

What was really weird about it was that it was supposedly Year One, but completely different, and Miller was supposedly working on the script with Aronofsky.

I'm glad we got Batman Begins instead.

[JBElliott]

Yeah, but the thing is with those two are that they are the same as the comic, and that's it. I want them to pull a Kubrick once in a while.

If the film is of good quality and entertaining, then why bother pulling a Kubrick just for the sake of pulling a Kubrick?

[Dark Sasha]

If the film is of good quality and entertaining, then why bother pulling a Kubrick just for the sake of pulling a Kubrick?

Well the director and screenwriter could actually do something a little bit different.

[JBElliott]

Yeah but don't you want something that the director actually created or just translate it from the panels?

Both Rodriguez and Snyder made good films with a very close translation, some straight from the panels. So yeah, that's what I'd want. It'd be the first time (other than Dead End) that I'd see Batman on the screen.

[JBElliott]

I'm glad we got Batman Begins instead.

Well I'm glad we got BB over Arnofsky's version too (Big Al the mechanic, blech!), but I'd rather have had Y1.

[Jerome Gibbons]

It is an insult, just God.I'll let Grant take this one:

"Batman vs. Al Qaeda! It might as well be Bin Laden vs. King Kong! Or how about the sinister Al Qaeda mastermind up against a hungry Hannibal Lecter! For all the good it's likely to do. Cheering on a fictional character as he beats up fictionalized terrorists seems like a decadent indulgence when real terrorists are killing real people in the real world. I'd be so much more impressed if Frank Miller gave up all this graphic novel nonsense, joined the Army and, with a howl of undying hate, rushed headlong onto the front lines with the young soldiers who are actually risking life and limb 'vs' Al Qaeda."
Right on, daddy-o.


The emphasis on Gordon explains why something like Batman is necessary in Gotham, it makes it feel more real that way, even though it's not. This isn't as well done in Batman Begins.Batman/Wayne isn't a full, well-rounded person. He's damages and stunted due to the death of his parents and all he has in his life is is crusade to stop things like the murder of his parents from happening to other people.

Yeah, but Year One puts the emphasis on Gordon in such a way that it makes him practically the protagonist. And it's supposed to be Batman's movie. That sort of thing works great in comics with us comics nerds and stuff, but I'm not sure if mainstream audiences might buy it as much. And they're the ones who make the movies the big bucks. And yeah, I know Bruce Wayne isn't a mentally healthy person, but what I mean is, in Year One things aren't presented as much from his perspective as they are in your typical Batman story, and this results in YO Batman seeming less like a person and more like a spectral figure that's less sympathetic or likable or easy to relate to. And again, it works great in comics for comics readers, but I don't know if mainstream audiences would go for that.

[Gavin]

Well I'm glad we got BB over Arnofsky's version too (Big Al the mechanic, blech!), but I'd rather have had Y1.

If done right Y1 would have been amazing, but I'm so grateful that BB was so good, I don't really care.

[Dark Sasha]

Right on, daddy-o.

I mean, my God Frank, what happened to you? You're like the Micheal Jackson of the comic's world.

[JBElliott]

Yeah, but Year One puts the emphasis on Gordon in such a way that it makes him practically the protagonist. And it's supposed to be Batman's movie. That sort of thing works great in comics with us comics nerds and stuff, but I'm not sure if mainstream audiences might buy it as much. And they're the ones who make the movies the big bucks. And yeah, I know Bruce Wayne isn't a mentally healthy person, but what I mean is, in Year One things aren't presented as much from his perspective as they are in your typical Batman story, and this results in YO Batman seeming less like a person and more like a spectral figure that's less sympathetic or likable or easy to relate to. And again, it works great in comics for comics readers, but I don't know if mainstream audiences would go for that.

If Batman is to feel real, then something like what Miller did with the emphasis on Gordon is a necessity.

As for the emphasis not being completely on Batman or centrally on Batman, that sort of thing works well in film all the time. Sort of like why Alien is a better film than Aliens. In Alien we don't see too much of the Alien and the emphasis is on others, but in Aliens we see the Aliens all the time and our attachment to the "real" people is lessened. In a Batman film, Batman/Wayne isn't a "real" person, but Alfred, Gordon, etc. are. Batman can't be a "real" person ever since there's no way that a human could be Batman.

I think that if it works in comics, it's worth trying in films. The Spider-Man films and the Donner Superman films have pulled the most from the comics of any of the big two movies (DC and Marvel) and they've worked the best. And again, Sin City and 300 were both comercial and critical successes and those were straight from the pages, so it can work.

As with all things though, YMMV.

[JBElliott]

If done right Y1 would have been amazing, but I'm so grateful that BB was so good, I don't really care.

In a few decades Y1 will be done right. :D At least I can dream.

[Jerome Gibbons]

If Batman is to feel real, then something like what Miller did with the emphasis on Gordon is a necessity.
Of course, I just don't think that much emphasis is necessary. The drama with Gordon's wife and his affair and all that...like I said, he's basically the star of the book. If you have a Batman movie, you can't have someone who isn't Batman be the star of the book. It'd be like making a Spider-Man movie based on The Pulse's first arc.


As for the emphasis not being completely on Batman or centrally on Batman, that sort of thing works well in film all the time. Sort of like why Alien is a better film than Aliens. In Alien we don't see too much of the Alien and the emphasis is on others, but in Aliens we see the Aliens all the time and our attachment to the "real" people is lessened. In a Batman film, Batman/Wayne isn't a "real" person, but Alfred, Gordon, etc. are. Batman can't be a "real" person ever since there's no way that a human could be Batman.
Yeah, but the difference is, the Alien wasn't the star of Alien (even if there was an eponymous thing going on there...). It was Ripley and, to a lesser degree, her crew. The Alien presented the obstacle they had to overcome. But the humans were the ones in the spotlight. Same principle, really. Batman should be the one in the spotlight in a Batman movie, if you ask me. Even if people may or may not relate to him or want to be him or what you, he still has to be sympathetic/likable/interesting enough for people to go want to see the movie. Because, honestly, I don't think a lot of people would go see a Batman movie to see Jim Gordon, or Alfred, or Vicky Vale or whoever. They go to see Batman. They go to root for Batman.


As with all things though, YMMV.

It does, but these discussions are always great to have. They're interesting and allow people to bounce perspectives and ideas and points of view off each other, and that's what makes them great. :)

[Sy-Klone]

I read it myself not too long ago and was really impressed by it. Definitely one of the best Batman stories I've ever read (if not THE best).

[Sam Little]

Mazzuchelli is my all-time favorite artist. There's another Mazz Daredevil trade out called "Shadows and Fog" (I think), that leads in to the Born Again arc. It's a bit more standard superhero fare, but the art is beautiful.

[killingyouguy]

Mazzuchelli is my hero. I've tried to ape his style on so many Batman and Daredevil drawings, it's pathetic. And Frank Miller kicked a ton of ass on that one. Haven't gotten around to reading Born Again though, still need to buy that. I've only leafed through it at the store.

[chess]

I miss good Miller.

Ah, a "High Life" man. Miller is the champagne of beers.