PDA

View Full Version : Is the End of the Ultimate Universe coming?



Foolish Mortal
03-31-2007, 09:18 AM
LINK: The End of the Ultimate Universe? (http://comics.ign.com/articles/777/777482p1.html)

It's an interesting article, and it brings up some good points.

It talks about the quality of the Ultimate books slipping, how the "main" Marvelverse has integrated some aspects of the Ultimateverse which makes the Ultimate books more superfluous, and the fact that the longer the Ultimateverse goes on, the more deeper and complex the continuity becomes, which goes against the whole point of the Ultimateverse to begin with.

If this does happen, I don't think it's going to be anytime soon.

SCOURGE
03-31-2007, 09:20 AM
LINK: The End of the Ultimate Universe? (http://comics.ign.com/articles/777/777482p1.html)

It's an interesting article, and it brings up some good points.

It talks about the quality of the Ultimate books slipping, how the "main" Marvelverse has integrated some aspects of the Ultimateverse which makes the Ultimate books more superfluous, and the fact that the longer the Ultimateverse goes on, the more deeper and complex the continuity becomes, which goes against the whole point of the Ultimateverse to begin with.

If this does happen, I don't think it's going to be anytime soon.

It will end when Brian leaves probably...it was his baby after all...

JoeE
03-31-2007, 09:23 AM
There will always be an Ultimate Spider-Man until Bendis doesn't want to write it anymore, but I can see the rest of the books getting cancelled. Sort of like how Spider-Girl went after the rest of MC2 got cancelled.

Shwicaz
03-31-2007, 09:23 AM
from the beat-- sales estimates for January 2007 Ultimate Titles:


5. ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN
01/02 #17 - 79,203
01/03 #34 - 93,789
01/04 #52 - 95,854
01/05 #71 - 83,987
=====
01/06 #89 - 71,935 ( -3.1%)
02/06 #90 - 71,470 ( -0.6%)
03/06 #91 - 74,028 ( +3.6%)
03/06 #92 - 72,269 ( -2.4%)
04/06 #93 - 72,831 ( +0.8%)
05/06 #94 - 74,051 ( +1.7%)
05/06 #95 - 73,564 ( -0.7%)
06/06 #96 - 73,472 ( -0.1%)
07/06 #97 - 76,612 ( +4.3%)
08/06 #98 - 77,304 ( +0.9%)
08/06 #99 - 76,075 ( -1.6%)
09/06 #100 - 119,194 (+56.7%)
10/06 #101 - 78,963 (-33.8%)
11/06 #102 - 77,121 ( -2.3%)
12/06 #103 - 76,251 ( -1.1%)
01/07 #104 - 108,082 (+41.7%)
6 mnth (+41.1%)
1 year (+50.2%)
2 year (+28.7%)
3 year (+12.8%)

22. ULTIMATE X-MEN
01/02 #14 - 97,690
01/03 #27 - 84,594
01/04 #41 - 99,532
01/05 #55 - 87,447
=====
01/06 #66 - 73,720 ( -0.7%)
02/06 #67 - 72,700 ( -1.4%)
03/06 #68 - 72,765 ( +0.1%)
04/06 #69 - 73,188 ( +0.6%)
05/06 #70 - 72,235 ( -1.3%)
06/06 #71 - 71,314 ( -1.3%)
07/06 #72 - 70,593 ( -1.0%)
08/06 #73 - 70,153 ( -0.6%)
09/06 #74 - 68,874 ( -1.8%)
10/06 #75 - 73,837 ( +7.2%)
11/06 #76 - 69,054 ( -6.5%)
12/06 #77 - 67,338 ( -2.5%)
01/07 #78 - 66,409 ( -1.4%)
6 mnth ( -5.9%)
1 year ( -9.9%)
2 year (-24.1%)
3 year (-33.3%)

30. ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR
01/04 #2 - 126,693
01/05 #15 - 74,501
=====
01/06 —
02/06 #27 - 67,922 ( -2.5%)
03/06 #28 - 67,480 ( -0.7%)
04/06 #29 - 67,554 ( +0.1%)
05/06 #30 - 103,837 (+53.7%)
06/06 —
07/06 #31 - 84,460 (-18.7%)
08/06 #32 - 80,730 ( -4.4%)
08/06 #33 - 65,191 (-19.2%)
09/06 #34 - 63,447 ( -2.7%)
10/06 #35 - 61,270 ( -3.4%)
11/06 #36 - 57,779 ( -5.7%)
12/06 #37 - 55,047 ( -4.7%)
01/07 #38 - 52,859 ( -4.0%)
6 mnth (-37.4%)
1 year (-22.2%)
2 year (-29.0%)
3 year (-58.3%)

Issues #30-32 had artificial sales boosts and you can leave them aside. But this book has still shed over 12,000 readers since August, and that’s not good news.

44. ULTIMATE VISION
11/06 #0 of 5 - 40,004
12/06 #1 of 5 - 53,069 (+32.7%)
01/07 #2 of 5 - 40,288 (-24.1%)

Perfectly fine second issue drop.



76. ULTIMATE CIVIL WAR SPIDER-HAM
01/07 One-Shot - 26,245

I’d say that’s a pretty good number for a novelty product. It’s arguable that Marvel might have expected more from J Michael Straczynski’s name.



ULTIMATES
01/02 #1 - 149,289
01/03 —
01/04 —
01/05 #2 - 113,379
=====
01/06 —
02/06 —
03/06 #10 - 94,900 ( +0.4%)
04/06 —
05/06 —
06/06 #11 - 96,751 ( +2.0%)
07/06 —
08/06 —
09/06 #12 - 99,538 ( +2.9%)
10/06 —
11/06 —
12/06 —
01/07 —

Late.


ULTIMATE POWER
10/06 #1 of 9 - 113,823
11/06 #2 of 9 - 76,654 (-32.7%)
12/06 #3 of 9 - 70,148 ( -8.5%)
01/07 —

Just late. The Director’s Cut edition of issue #1 sells another 11,136 copies.





I don't see it ending anytime soon with numbers like these.

Ray G.
03-31-2007, 09:25 AM
Like some people have said, the Ultimate line may end at some point, but Ultimate Spider-man won't end until Bendis says it ends.

Although, at this point, I could more see some sort of crisis that winds up merging the two somewhat, with the way the 616 has written Spider-man into a corner.

Matt O'Keefe
03-31-2007, 09:28 AM
Like some people have said, the Ultimate line may end at some point, but Ultimate Spider-man won't end until Bendis says it ends.

Although, at this point, I could more see some sort of crisis that winds up merging the two somewhat, with the way the 616 has written Spider-man into a corner.

This isn't DC Ray, they aren't merging:roll:


Although I do agree they have a lot to repair with Spidey 616 continuity.

JoeE
03-31-2007, 09:29 AM
It's weird, but Ultimate Spider-Man has become sort of a haven for core Spider-Man stories over the last year. The Ultimate Clone Saga, as off-the-wall as it got, still felt more like a real Spider-Man story than anything 616 Peter Parker has been going through.

I'm seriously considering culling my pull list, but when I do USM will always be one of those top five titles that I'll keep.

Nick MB
03-31-2007, 09:35 AM
From a straightforward scheduling perspective, they still have to publish Ultimates 3 and 4, not to mention the long-threatened Singer UXM run perhaps, before they shut it down...

However, I think there could perhaps be an ending. If sales have slipped a lot when Bendis leaves USM, I really think he should be allowed to end it. I don't necessarily mean kill the character off, but end it. Very curious to see how sales are affected by the departure of Bags.

A.Huerta
03-31-2007, 09:36 AM
Are people still waiting for Singer on UXM? Wow.

Foolish Mortal
03-31-2007, 09:38 AM
From a straightforward scheduling perspective, they still have to publish Ultimates 3 and 4, not to mention the long-threatened Singer UXM run perhaps, before they shut it down...

However, I think there could perhaps be an ending. If sales have slipped a lot when Bendis leaves USM, I really think he should be allowed to end it. I don't necessarily mean kill the character off, but end it. Very curious to see how sales are affected by the departure of Bags.
Oh of course. Like I said, I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon. (If it does happen)

But I think the article does bring up some problems that are going to have to be addressed at some point down the road.

Mikie
03-31-2007, 09:56 AM
from the beat-- sales estimates for January 2007 Ultimate Titles:




I don't see it ending anytime soon with numbers like these.

Agreed.

nick maynard
03-31-2007, 09:56 AM
well, the continuity argument is really stupid i think.

spider-man is usually in several issue story arcs. how many of those have there been? 15? that is a 1965 year's worth of story.

ultimates has really only been 2 stories.

i havent followed x-men or FF to be honest.

but it's not tons of continuity.

Taxman
03-31-2007, 10:02 AM
With the crop of writers Marvel has and the almost endless stable of undeveloped and unintroduced Ultimate characters, I don't really see a point in entertaining such a discussion.

lonesomefool
03-31-2007, 10:02 AM
As long as they sell, it isnt happening.

I think the Ultimate universe's biggest problem right now, is it's really fallen out of focus with all the big events in the MU.

That said, right now the only book I am reading is Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimates delays have forced me to trade-wait. Ultimate Fantastic Four looks interesting, but I cant afford it. Ultimate X-Men isnt very good under Kirkman and I dropped it. And Ultimates 3 is a must-skip for me, I dislike Loeb, I dislike Madueria, no reason to buy it.

Mister Mets
03-31-2007, 10:33 AM
I have a few complaints about the article.

1. Books can be accessible despite 100+ issues of back story. Just check out Silver Age Marvel comics.

2. They really underestimate the quality/ significance/ readership/ sales of The Ultimates 2. And seem to believe that their personal opinions reflect those of every other comic book reader (a common mistake in all forms of criticism.)

But I do think there were mistakes in the Ultimate franchise, and that Ultimate F4/ X-Men should probably get new creators (although I think it would be pretty easy to make them buzz books again).

Mister Mets
03-31-2007, 10:38 AM
One more flaw in the article: They were wrong that the Ultimate Spider-Man series lost all buzz given the high sales of the 100th/ 104th issues (along with buzz for the clone saga arc.)


Like some people have said, the Ultimate line may end at some point, but Ultimate Spider-man won't end until Bendis says it ends.

Although, at this point, I could more see some sort of crisis that winds up merging the two somewhat, with the way the 616 has written Spider-man into a corner.
I'm willing to bet cash Marvel has a solution to the 616 Spider-Man problem, and his joining New Avengers/ getting unmasked in Civil War were all part of some master plan.


There will always be an Ultimate Spider-Man until Bendis doesn't want to write it anymore, but I can see the rest of the books getting cancelled. Sort of like how Spider-Girl went after the rest of MC2 got cancelled.
Keep in mind the other Ultimate books have always outsold A-Next/ J2/ Fantastic Five/ Wild Thing.

JoeE
03-31-2007, 10:39 AM
Keep in mind the other Ultimate books have always outsold A-Next/ J2/ Fantastic Five/ Wild Thing.

True, but that may not always be the case. UFF is shedding readers pretty quickly, it seems.

Blandy vs Terrorism
03-31-2007, 10:41 AM
Not in the forseeable future.

BCD
03-31-2007, 10:42 AM
USM is still fantastic and the last few issues, to me at least, seemed so full of energy and potential for great stories to come.

Ultimates themselves I still love when it does come out. That said, I'll give it a shot when Loeb comes 'round, but my expectations aren't high. I love some of Loeb's older works, his latest works have left me pretty dissapointed, but I think he could still pull out a quality tale on Ult 3 and 4.

Ult FF should be the coolest comic being published. Carey's stuff has been almost unreadable for me, but the next writer could come on and just knock the shit out of it.

UltX feels so meh. I loved what Millar did, Bendis' run for some reason I only read once, but have been meaning to get back to. Vaughan's issues were fantastic, but since he's left the title has just been very flat for me and just feels like fanfic. There's an amazing foundation on the book and it can easily be awesome again in the right hands.

As a whole, the Ultimate line is extremely accessible via its library of collections. Despite however many years, and hundreds of issues, the Ultimate line is infinitely more accessible to a new reader than the 616.

InBendiswetrust
03-31-2007, 11:12 AM
I'm a big believer in USM being the only real good Ultimate series. Ultimates has had me waiting forever for the trade, so I'm sure that whole thing is dulled out for the rest of you. I think that more characters deserve to be briefly "Ultimated" in a mini series or something. USM has been a little too much of introducing new characters to me. Give some characters an Ultimate spot light who need it. Who would complain about a modernized character of old in his/her own mini series. Any arc of Spider-man is too much like there mini-series. Focus on Peter Parker in USM and start introducing new characters in mini series.

Kefky
03-31-2007, 11:33 AM
UFF is probably gonna be the first to go, basically because, let's face it, they're not very popular in any universe. They might put someone big like Millar again(who didn't even make the book sell all THAT well), but it'll only be delaying the inevitable. It'll never make it past issue 100, regardless of the quality of the writing.


UXM, on the other hand, is still an x-book. No matter how bad the sales gets, any kind of sales gimmick would give it a boost. The Brian Singer run is apparently still gonna happen, so the book still has some hope.

But I think we can safely say that USM will hang in there even after every other ultimate book is gone.

tom daylight
03-31-2007, 11:42 AM
i think to be honest USM is terrific and always has been and i would be fine if marvel decided to cull the rest of the ultimate line just for that one to go on. the ultimate line was designed as a bridge to bring new readers into comics but I think it's kind of served its purpose for the most part.

ultimate x-men and ff have been pretty much irrelevant from the start - they're there purely for marketing reasons rather than any burning desire to create any characters or tell a story - they were excellent under ellis and vaughan, but i'd read mickey mouse if either of those two were writing it, and it's not like either stayed around very long. as much as people are willing to lay the blame at kirkman and carey - it's not their fault - these are the highest-profile books they could get, and they were the best writers they could find to write them. i don't doubt they could work wonders if only they had the opportunity to recreate them from scratch, but both books have been through at least three writers already. the main problems these books suffer are that neither book compares favourably to what their 616 counterparts achieve - they're both particularly restrained (I mean, UFF has very deliberately avoided being as fantastic as the original Fantastic Four, and for god's sake why?!?! - and UXM isn't as edgy as Uncanny X-Men, cause guess what, they went there already - it can hardly outdo astonishing x-men in terms of drama or sales! - it has the terrible disadvantage of being unable to tie in with any x-men crossovers!!!!)

ultimates hasn't suffered from these problems yet; it's still a truly distinctive book on the stands, but this is mainly because it's taken so long to get the issues out, and of course because the mainstream Avengers have changed almost beyond recognition over the past couple of years.

still, pointless or not, critical acclaim and general perception of the line as a whole be damned, it brings in quite a lot of cash for marvel, and I doubt they'll be looking to trim any of its titles in the near future. a shame in my opinion, but i suppose that as someone who's collected the line since (almost) the beginning, i only have myself to blame.

tom daylight
03-31-2007, 11:45 AM
UFF is probably gonna be the first to go, basically because, let's face it, they're not very popular in any universe. They might put someone big like Millar again(who didn't even make the book sell all THAT well),

heheh. he was GUTTED when his first issue didn't hit the top of the charts :)

Kefky
03-31-2007, 11:50 AM
For the record, I'm loving Carey's UFF, and as of the last issue, I'm very much looking forward to seeing where Kirkman's going with UXM. So I wouldn't want a creative team chance in either of 'em. :)

Master Jack Rabbitt
03-31-2007, 11:55 AM
Ultimate Universe: The End?

Taxman
03-31-2007, 11:59 AM
Ultimate Universe: The End?Zombie The Sentry would just punch through anyway, nothing special.

Does Bendis have some sort of proprietary contract with Ultimate Spider-Man? I wouldn't be so quick to assume that title is going to go away as soon as he decides to roll up the Macintosh.

dougmac
03-31-2007, 12:05 PM
UFF has been really good, and seems like they are going in a more Fantastic Adventure type direction. UXM seems kind of weak lately, with the Bishop and Cable stuff, but it's just lost some steam, it's not awful.

tom daylight
03-31-2007, 12:06 PM
I think it would be pretty cool if the X-Men and the FF got killed off. It'd put a hell of a lot of pressure on the characters of Spidey, Nick Fury and the Ultimates.

costello
03-31-2007, 12:41 PM
This is all my opinion, but I don't think the ongoing series are hurting the Ultimate fans as much as the minis.

People have given up on Hulk vs. Wolverine, although it looks insanely cool.

Ultimate Iron Man started out as a fun read but took a completely different direction.

Ultimate Elektra was forgettable.

Ultimate Daredevil and Elektra was forgettable.

Ultimate Vision just isn't fun.

Ultimate X4/4X is forgettable.

Ultimate Adventures was.... Ultimate Adventures. Not only that, but it was plagued by delays as well.

People were miffed with Ultimate War... I don't even remember why. Because it marked the time when the covers were printed on a different kind of paper? Millar's story branched out into a mini? There wasn't a big payoff? I don't remember.

People are complaining about the art in Ultimate Power... so who knows about that one.

Squadron Supreme hasn't released an issue since a year ago, and that might be affecting the attitude towards Ultimate Power.

People were upset that half of issue #1 of Ultimate Six was in Wizard when they were told they were getting an exclusive... and then people were pissed because the series grew by one issue.

Ultimate Galactus started strong but lost its momentum not only because of delays but because of the delays readers saw no impact on the Ultimate Universe.

Ultimate Marvel Team-Up's thesis was right out in the open. I think that's what kept people coming back to it and that's why so many wanted to pick it up in trade. It worked based on Brian's premise... so well that readers are willing to toss the Spider-Man/FF AND portions of the summer special out the window.

There was a time when I couldn't find ANY Ultimate books in the back issue bin and it was a race to get to the comic book store. Ultimate Spider-Man, X-Men, Ultimates, and even Fantastic Four would sell out by Wednesday night. But once Ultimate War, Ultimate Daredevil and Elektra, and Ultimate Adventures came out the quality of the Ultimate line started to diminish. It felt like if Marvel stamped an Ultimate label on a comic it would sell almost instantly. I think people started to wise up AND I think they became more critical of what they were reading.

Ultimate X-Men isn't a bad comic book at all. Kirkman's vision of what the book should be is completely different from what Millar had in mind, but Vaughan was a great writer to put between them. He really eased the transition. Kirkman really brought the awkwardness of being a teenager back into the X-Men and I think he's accomplished that better than the rest of them.

I'll be honest, I haven't read Carey's FF yet (I plan to today) but Millar's run was so huge it doesn't matter who writes the book, it's not going to get praise simply because it isn't Millar. This Marvel Zombie thing is HUGE. Following that run simply isn't going to be a picnic and God bless Carey for sticking with it. I loved Millar's work and because of it I purposely kept away from reading Ultimate FF until I was ready because I don't want to compare the different styles.

What Marvel really needs to do is focus on the mini series in the Ultimate Line. Either don't print any or print them if they're worth reading. The people want quality, not quantity, and the feeling towards the not-so-stellar minis is starting to leak into the main titles.

tom daylight
03-31-2007, 01:00 PM
People were miffed with Ultimate War... I don't even remember why. Because it marked the time when the covers were printed on a different kind of paper? Millar's story branched out into a mini? There wasn't a big payoff? I don't remember.

the main problem was that it was advertised as (and entitled) ultimate x-men vs the x-men... and they only met in one issue of it. and some of the x-men weren't even there!!!

oh and chris bachalo's work (which I usually love) was incredibly difficult to read.


People were upset that half of issue #1 of Ultimate Six was in Wizard when they were told they were getting an exclusive... and then people were pissed because the series grew by one issue.

pffft that's entirely wizard's fault for lying. nobody blames ultimate for that.


Ultimate Galactus started strong but lost its momentum not only because of delays but because of the delays readers saw no impact on the Ultimate Universe.

I thought it was terrific as a whole. The hardcover should make for an excellent read. Good story, beautiful artwork all the way through.


It worked based on Brian's premise... so well that readers are willing to toss the Spider-Man/FF AND portions of the summer special out the window.

I'm not. I liked that FF a lot more than the one we ended up with!



I'll be honest, I haven't read Carey's FF yet (I plan to today) but Millar's run was so huge it doesn't matter who writes the book, it's not going to get praise simply because it isn't Millar.

Attention, you mean. I don't think Millar's second run was particularly laudable. (To be honest, I don't think much of his work ever is.)


What Marvel really needs to do is focus on the mini series in the Ultimate Line. Either don't print any or print them if they're worth reading. The people want quality, not quantity, and the feeling towards the not-so-stellar minis is starting to leak into the main titles.

i disagree. what they really need to do is cut out the ongoing books that aren't working. this will in turn give the mini-series the extra pressure they need (and somewhat less restriction in what they can do, for that matter. ultimate extinction might have seemed a more credible threat, that way).

costello
03-31-2007, 01:13 PM
still, pointless or not, critical acclaim and general perception of the line as a whole be damned, it brings in quite a lot of cash for marvel, and I doubt they'll be looking to trim any of its titles in the near future. a shame in my opinion, but i suppose that as someone who's collected the line since (almost) the beginning, i only have myself to blame.

1. I'm in the same boat. I thought it'd be great to have the entire universe under my belt and as a result I've supported a lot of books that looking back did not deserve my money.

2. I agree with what you said about Galactus. As one read it's great. The wait for each issue was not. I wasn't miffed... there was just so much going on that I forgot to care.

3. What are your thoughts on Vision #0 when it was originally printed in 4 page installments?

4. What I meant by tossing the MTU SM/FF stuff out, I meant continuity wise. I loved Mahfood's take on the characters.

5. While I see where you're coming from, with the popularity of the X-films and the new FF films, I don't see the books going away. UXM could have ended at #80 to just give the book a rest for a year or so. No comment as of yet on #UFF.

YouStayClassy
03-31-2007, 02:08 PM
1. I'm in the same boat. I thought it'd be great to have the entire universe under my belt and as a result I've supported a lot of books that looking back did not deserve my money.

5. While I see where you're coming from, with the popularity of the X-films and the new FF films, I don't see the books going away. UXM could have ended at #80 to just give the book a rest for a year or so. No comment as of yet on #UFF.

I too am in that boat. I mean Ultimate War.... WTF?!?


I also completely agree with you. UXM could have used a nice hiatus after that last arc...

JoeE
03-31-2007, 02:21 PM
I actually thought Ultimate War was a tremendously fun story, crappy Bachalo art aside. Ultimate Cap mowing down Wolverine with a machine gun is a thing of beauty.

YouStayClassy
03-31-2007, 02:24 PM
I actually thought Ultimate War was a tremendously fun story, crappy Bachalo art aside. Ultimate Cap mowing down Wolverine with a machine gun is a thing of beauty.

Oh, it had great moments to be sure, but overall.... what was the point? This mini is really fresh in my head because I just read it several days ago along with the X-Men issues it tied into, and it felt like such a waste of time. On a sidenote, I'd completely forgotten how good Millar's X-Men got towards the end (I wasn't a fan of the first couple of years....).

tom daylight
03-31-2007, 02:49 PM
3. What are your thoughts on Vision #0 when it was originally printed in 4 page installments?


I thought "I'm getting four pages of John Romita Jr every week for free along with some nice back covers so I'm happy" :)

story-wise, it was really twenty-four pages of exposition. useful exposition, but...


4. What I meant by tossing the MTU SM/FF stuff out, I meant continuity wise. I loved Mahfood's take on the characters.

actually it was the special i liked them in, with art by pearson and phillips. i felt like, well, if the ff have to be a bit more down-to-earth and realistic, this is exactly how i want them to be. but then they went and did the mtv version instead.


5. While I see where you're coming from, with the popularity of the X-films and the new FF films, I don't see the books going away. UXM could have ended at #80 to just give the book a rest for a year or so. No comment as of yet on #UFF.

well I dunno, I don't think the regular FF ever became mired in difficult continuity (although I suppose they are veering in that direction a little by changing the line-up again), besides which they have the Marvel Adventures title which is apparently well-liked by the few who read it, and which they point mainstream audiences directly towards (I have found it bewildering that they ever launched the Marvel Adventures line at all, seeing as its mission statement seems to be almost exactly the same as the Ultimate line, which kind of makes it redundant).

as for Ultimate X-Men, I think both the movies and the ultimate comics have become so convoluted with their storylines that you can pick up an issue of any x-men book and be equally confused! :) kirkman seems to be doing some interesting things with the book, splitting up the cast etc, i wish he was allowed to actually kill characters though rather than just pretend; it artificially keeps the stakes way lower than they should be. i am selfishly glad that he's let bendis have kitty all to himself. :)

tom daylight
03-31-2007, 02:50 PM
Oh, it had great moments to be sure, but overall.... what was the point?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

DaveCummings
03-31-2007, 03:44 PM
My problem with Ultimate War was that you thought that there would be a big drag out fight between the X-Men and Ultimates, which didn't happen. And the fact that all it did was lead into Millar's last X-Men arc.

Ultimate X-Men I think is probably the weakest of the X-books. It started off strong with Mark's first arc, but his other stories lacked the impact of "Tomorrow People" and "Return to Weapon X" and the numerous fill ins didn't help (as did Adam Kubert going to mainly breakdowns to all of his later issues).

I loved Bendis' arcs as well as BKV's run.

But the problem with Ultimate X-Men is that it has shown alot of promise, but alot of times didn't live up to it.

UltimateFactor
03-31-2007, 03:54 PM
616 Pete needs to go into outerspace or somthing. A Planet Spidey would kick ass. Somthing fresh needs to happen there. Him moving to the westcoast to chill with the Runaways would rock.

Shepherd
03-31-2007, 05:22 PM
I think the purpose of the ultimate universe has really changed over time. Because we have some of our favorite characters in very recognizable forms in the UU, the writers for the MU have a lot more leeway with what they can do with those characters. If there was no UU, there's no way they would have killed Captain American or unmasked Spidey. To me, the UU is kind of the backup in case any of the characters in the MU gets screwed up too much.

R