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BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 01:55 PM
I mentioned it in the bought/thought thread, but didn't get any input on other's opinions on this.

The Devil by the Deed 25th anniversary hard cover was recolored to fit into the current black white and red theme of recent Hunter Rose Grendel books.

I was really dissapointed to see the beautiful colors taken out of this book. I love many, many black and white books, and really enjoyed all the recent Black White and Red Grendel books, but was there really any reason to do this to a seminal comicbook work? I have the colored version, but was really excited for this hardcover, because the version I have is stapled without a spin and therefore doesn't fit in on the old bookshelf too well.

Why would Wagner do this? Is it just complete disdain for his own previous work?

Ironically in the reprinted forward by Alan Moore from the first time this was collected, Moore comments on how vivid and beautiful the colors are. What?

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 02:35 PM
Nobody, huh?

Bill Nolan
03-29-2007, 02:39 PM
Go here and ask:

Wagner's new board (http://www.comicworldnews.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?;act=SF;f=65)

He's a nice guy and will be happy to explain the reasoning behind this, I'm sure.

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 02:50 PM
Go here and ask:

Wagner's new board (http://www.comicworldnews.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?;act=SF;f=65)

He's a nice guy and will be happy to explain the reasoning behind this, I'm sure.

Kind of a weird message board. Even after registering I am not allowed to start a thread, and I can't figure out the right place to ask the question. Wow. I must really suck at this internet thing.

Bill Nolan
03-29-2007, 03:06 PM
I've been a member of those boards for a while, so I'm not sure what the newbie process is. Do you want me to start a thread?

J.D. Lombardi
03-29-2007, 03:09 PM
Odd that he removed the colors. I've literally got everything that has come out in regard to the character and since this was so cheap, I was gonna get it for the hell of it. You've made me second guess that now. So I guess I'll actually have to go INTO a comic store and check it out, rather than ordering it online.

The horror.

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 03:10 PM
I've been a member of those boards for a while, so I'm not sure what the newbie process is. Do you want me to start a thread?

I am very curious as to the reasoning behind it, but I don't want you to go to any trouble for it. I am sure the answer will present itself to me at some point.

Bill Nolan
03-29-2007, 03:12 PM
OK, I didn't buy it, so it would be weird for me to start the thread anyway... Hopefully your own posting issues will be worked out soon enough. The board is always looking for more participants (it's new), so check back if you want. I'm sure Matt isn't opposed to valid criticism.

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 03:12 PM
Odd that he removed the colors. I've literally got everything that has come out in regard to the character and since this was so cheap, I was gonna get it for the hell of it. You've made me second guess that now. So I guess I'll actually have to go INTO a comic store and check it out, rather than ordering it online.

The horror.

It looks good. It just doesn't look as good (in my opinion) as the original colored work. If this was the first I saw of the story, I don't think I'd have any complaints.

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 03:16 PM
OK, I didn't buy it, so it would be weird for me to start the thread anyway... Hopefully your own posting issues will be worked out soon enough. The board is always looking for more participants (it's new), so check back if you want. I'm sure Matt isn't opposed to valid criticism.


Yeah, I'm not going to go onto his board and start throwingg shit at him, and its not even critism so much as a question. Yeah, I prefer the color, but I am more curious as to WHY he would take the color out, I would have to rephrase it, but like I said in my first post, I wonder if he disliked the color, or if he just thinks the noir palet of black, white and red fits the character better...

My only problem with the decision, aside from my personal preference, is kind of the anti-Orson Wells "keep your damn crayons off my movie" view. The work is seminal, I would prefer to see it remain pretty true to its roots.

Doc Randy
03-29-2007, 03:21 PM
Why would Wagner do this? Is it just complete disdain for his own previous work?


Wow... You're making quite a few assumptions here.

First off, DEVIL BY THE DEED has been recolored and remastered several times now in several different formats. Wagner's philosophy has always been that people have had decades to buy the other existing versions. And... those versions are still available.

Rather than just another bland repackaging, he wanted to do something special. The black, white, and red theme has been a constant to Matt's work and he thought it would be nice to redo this book in that format. He has also stated that he wanted all of the Hunter Rose material in this format. Considering the original Hunter Rose format and this being the 25th anniversary, the black, white, & red makes sense.

Second, the book is stunning. The work Matt and Chris Pitzer did on this volume is amazing. I think you are being awefully disrespectful of Pitzer's work.

Third, did you think Matt was showing "disdain" when his orginal painted colors were recolored at Dark Horse by Bernie Mireault, Kathryn Delaney?

As I said, this book has been repackaged multiple times. And at the end of the day, these thing come down to Matt's preferences.

Doc Randy
03-29-2007, 03:24 PM
Yeah, I'm not going to go onto his board and start throwingg shit at him, and its not even critism so much as a question. Yeah, I prefer the color, but I am more curious as to WHY he would take the color out, I would have to rephrase it, but like I said in my first post, I wonder if he disliked the color, or if he just thinks the noir palet of black, white and red fits the character better...

My only problem with the decision, aside from my personal preference, is kind of the anti-Orson Wells "keep your damn crayons off my movie" view. The work is seminal, I would prefer to see it remain pretty true to its roots.

Like I said, this is the fourth format and third coloring revision of this book.

I am curious as to what you are thinking of as the original? The serialized printing, the Comico TPB, or the Dark Horse TPB?

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 03:27 PM
Wow... You're making quite a few assumptions here.

First off, DEVIL BY THE DEED has been recolored and remastered several times now in several different formats. Wagner's philosophy has always been that people have had decades to buy the other existing versions. And... those versions are still available.

Rather than just another bland repackaging, he wanted to do something special. The black, white, and red theme has been a constant to Matt's work and he thought it would be nice to redo this book in that format. He has also stated that he wanted all of the Hunter Rose material in this format.

Second, the book is stunning. The work Matt and Chris Pitzer did on this volume is amazing. I think you are being awefully disrespectful of Pitzer's work.

Third, did you think Matt was showing "disdain" when his orginal painted colors were recolored at Dark Horse by Bernie Mireault, Kathryn Delaney?

As I said, this book has been repackaged multiple times. And at the end of the day, these thing come down to Matt's preferences.

Good God man. Calm down. Read a few more posts in the thread if you think I am attacking the quality of work presented in the book, because I am not.

And I think recoloring a book for a more vibrant palet is similar to remastering a movie, it is not really changing the materials. I'll stick to my opinion that I enjoyed the color work more and wish that it hadn't been changed. Obviously The creator of the book can do whatever he wants with his work.

I disagree with you on the last part though. It is a work of art and the interpretation of it comes down to each individual's preference, not the artist's.

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 03:32 PM
Like I said, this is the fourth format and third coloring revision of this book.

I am curious as to what you are thinking of as the original? The serialized printing, the Comico TPB, or the Dark Horse TPB?

Like I said in the last post there, which clearly crossed this one, I consider a colored version colored and a black and white version not as colorful...

I like the black white and red stuff, I just wish this book had been released in hard cover and full color. To answer your question I have the Dark Horse version of the book, but don't remember referring to it as an "original" version. I have never read any of the comico books.

Doc Randy
03-29-2007, 03:36 PM
I just remembered yet another variation of this book... the Graphitti Designs Hardcover which featured the original painted colors.

Wow... so that's at least 5 variations now.

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 03:38 PM
I just remembered yet another variation of this book... the Graphitti Designs Hardcover which featured the original painted colors.

Wow... so that's at least 5 variations now.

That sounds more up my alley. How different were the original painted pages fro the Dark Horse collection, if you know?

Doc Randy
03-29-2007, 03:40 PM
Good God man. Calm down.

I'm not upset or anything.

I just think your assumptions regarding Matt's "disdain" are a little off base - especially considering the various format and coloring changes this title has gone through over the years.

But... I remember other people thinking Matt had a "disdain" for his painted colors when Dark Horse had it resized and recolored.

To answer your question... the painted colors are significantly different from the Dark Horse version.

Bill Nolan
03-29-2007, 03:42 PM
Again, Matt runs a very informal board, and I'm sure he would be happy to answer any questions, so long as they are put forth in a any sort of vaguely respectful way.

And Chris Pitzer just started posting, too, so I'm sure there will be some enlightening discussion about the subject.

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 03:42 PM
Wow... You're making quite a few assumptions here.




Well, since you changed which portion of my post you quoted, I feel this probably deserves a new response. When a question is asked it doesn't imply any assumption at all, it implies that I don't know why something happened and I am asking for an answer.

I appreciate you answering and I assume that your information is from some reliable source.

Bill Nolan
03-29-2007, 03:43 PM
I have the Comico tpb, btw, which is why I didn't order this. I did, however, order the other hardcover, of the hard-to-find stuff. I'm salivating for that one...

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 03:44 PM
I have the Comico tpb, btw, which is why I didn't order this. I did, however, order the other hardcover, of the hard-to-find stuff. I'm salivating for that one...

Que?!?!

Bill Nolan
03-29-2007, 03:50 PM
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-186

BriRedfern
03-29-2007, 03:54 PM
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-186

Wow. First I've heard of it. That sounds amazing. Thanks. And thanks for the links earlier as well!

TIP
03-30-2007, 04:50 AM
Ooo.

Matt Wagner has a message board!

:bamf:

T

redsplitwig
04-03-2007, 06:20 AM
I have the Comico tpb, btw, which is why I didn't order this. I did, however, order the other hardcover, of the hard-to-find stuff. I'm salivating for that one...

I wonder if this rare stuff will have red added into the B&W pages. What about the Art of Grendel HC coming out? Anybody got info on that? I'm looking forward to the new story they're doing this summer. It's been a while since we've seen any Grendel stuff. I'm pretty excited, but I kind of wish it was something other than Hunter Rose. He's a great character, but it seems like his story has been told. I'd like to see more of the other Grendels or some new Grendels.