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Scotty
02-22-2007, 07:11 PM
Which is considered by most the worst show out of the Star Trek Franchise I'm just digging. It's a little slow the first two seasons, much like TNG, DS9, and Voyager but once 3rd Season hits it's nothing but awesome. I kind of wished it could of went to 7 seasons.

I understand why there are fans of this show.

CapnChaos
02-22-2007, 07:16 PM
I agree. The first two seasons aren't bad, they're just pretty much stuff that you've already before. The last two seasons are some of the best Trek.

Scotty
02-22-2007, 07:26 PM
I'm almost done with the Xindi stuff and I'm just digging it. i even like the CGI evil Insect guys.

artimoff
02-22-2007, 07:34 PM
I skipped season's 2 & 3, but totally loved 4.

Scotty
02-22-2007, 07:35 PM
I skipped season's 2 & 3, but totally loved 4.

Watch 3. Unlike 4 It's like a whole season worth of one show. It's one story line and it's awesome.

Bill?
02-22-2007, 07:45 PM
yeah they had some OK episodes. especially in the last season or so. but it was too little too late. it was a interesting premise.they had a great opportunity to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch, but in the end it never really did much to distinguish itself from previous trek.

Scotty
02-22-2007, 07:48 PM
I think it's very different from the other Treks. Archer has done some really evil or un-Captain like things even by Kirk Standards. I've enjoyed it.

Taxman
02-22-2007, 07:52 PM
I watched the first season when it aired, but I don't remember much. That should tell you something.

I did enjoy the Mirror Universe and Klingon plague episodes.

Scotty
02-22-2007, 07:58 PM
I watched the first season when it aired, but I don't remember much. That should tell you something.

I did enjoy the Mirror Universe and Klingon plague episodes.

I watched the first season Tuesday and out side the first episode I don't remember much. that should tell you something.

Thudpucker
02-22-2007, 07:58 PM
I've seen several of them in reruns now and enjoy the show, that 4th season was very good. It was a big mistake cancelling it when they did.

Chris McCarver
02-22-2007, 08:30 PM
I've seen several of them in reruns now and enjoy the show, that 4th season was very good. It was a big mistake cancelling it when they did.

And HOW they did, with that "lost TNG episode" approach and lame major-character death.

"Valentine to the fans," my ass.

CapnChaos
02-22-2007, 08:41 PM
And HOW they did, with that "lost TNG episode" approach and lame major-character death.

"Valentine to the fans," my ass.

:grope:

Scotty
02-22-2007, 10:45 PM
yeah not to happy with the last episode of the series myself.

KAK
02-22-2007, 11:11 PM
I've seen several of them in reruns now and enjoy the show, that 4th season was very good. It was a big mistake cancelling it when they did.

It was dead in the ratings, I watched the show from the start, the mistake I guess you could say was cancelling it, the bigger mistake was fans not watching it

CapnChaos
02-22-2007, 11:14 PM
It was a little of both.

Frankly, I'm surprised the ratings were so far in the tank considering the good press it was getting in the fan community the last season. But I know a TON of viewers that left during the second season and just never looked back. It's funny because the first two seasons of pretty much every Trek series but the original wasn't very good for it's first couple of seasons.

KAK
02-22-2007, 11:17 PM
It was a little of both.

Frankly, I'm surprised the ratings were so far in the tank considering the good press it was getting in the fan community the last season. But I know a TON of viewers that left during the second season and just never looked back. It's funny because the first two seasons of pretty much every Trek series but the original wasn't very good for it's first couple of seasons.

Man all I heard was hardcore Star Trek "fans" bitching about the show til it's death, specifically from trekweb.com (biggest fan trek website, no I am not a dork.) The fans killed this show, without a doubt.

Sam Little
02-22-2007, 11:20 PM
I loved this show. I really wish this had got seven seasons like the others. Season 4 really was exceptionally good Star Trek. I do agree with everyone and their mother that the final episode sucked oceans of ass.

CapnChaos
02-22-2007, 11:24 PM
Man all I heard was hardcore Star Trek "fans" bitching about the show til it's death, specifically from trekweb.com (biggest fan trek website, no I am not a dork.) The fans killed this show, without a doubt.

I never heard that. I know a lot of people that were making public expressions of support for the show. The Digital Bits was one of the main sites I can remember. They were actively campaigning for people to watch during the last season.

KAK
02-22-2007, 11:30 PM
I never heard that. I know a lot of people that were making public expressions of support for the show. The Digital Bits was one of the main sites I can remember. They were actively campaigning for people to watch during the last season.

The hardcore trek fans are dicks, MAJOR continuity nazis, and such haters of Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, it didn't matter how much the show improved.

Dr. Omega
02-22-2007, 11:31 PM
I loved all of Enterprise.. except the last episode. I have locked that away in a place in my brain reserved for Highlander 2, Star Trek 5, etc.

The theme to Enterprise was even the song I used when I proposed to my wife and we played it at our wedding..


Dr. Ω

CapnChaos
02-22-2007, 11:39 PM
The hardcore trek fans are dicks, MAJOR continuity nazis, and such haters of Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, it didn't matter how much the show improved.

I'm a continuity nazi and I hate B&B as much as the next guy, but anyone that doesn't admit the show became good when Cotto jumped on for the last two seasons is deluded. Besides, the continuity freaks should be thanking him given how much he fixed that B&B screwed up in the first couple of seasons.

DaveCummings
02-23-2007, 03:40 AM
yeah they had some OK episodes. especially in the last season or so. but it was too little too late. it was a interesting premise.they had a great opportunity to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch, but in the end it never really did much to distinguish itself from previous trek.


But dude, It only had like 4 seasons. If I remember correctly, TNG and DS9 took 3 or 4 seasons before they found their direction and stopped sucking.

~Dave

ds9
02-23-2007, 03:44 AM
Which is considered by most the worst show out of the Star Trek Franchise I'm just digging. It's a little slow the first two seasons, much like TNG, DS9, and Voyager but once 3rd Season hits it's nothing but awesome. I kind of wished it could of went to 7 seasons.

I understand why there are fans of this show.It did get better they brought new people on the writing staff.

Bill?
02-23-2007, 04:47 AM
But dude, It only had like 4 seasons. If I remember correctly, TNG and DS9 took 3 or 4 seasons before they found their direction and stopped sucking.

~Dave

I'm not sure i agree with ds9. but yeah TNG did take awhile to get going. and I'm not claiming I didn't watch Enterprise or wouldn't have kept watching it had it stayed on. but even in the last season it never really was as original as it needed to be to build the audience it needed. it relied too much on retreads of past trek episodes or nostalgia-fueled throw backs of original trek.
by the time it was canceled there had been a star trek show on in one form or another for almost 20 years straight. they really needed to bring something new to the table in order to keep people interested.

Thomas Mauer
02-23-2007, 04:48 AM
I loved the show. Wish they'd have done season 4 type stuff from the beginning. Then it would have stood a better chance.

Xander Boune
02-23-2007, 05:20 AM
I only watched the first season, but can someone tell me who the shadow hologram from the future ended up being (the guy who was helping the suliban(?) in the temporal cold war)? I always thought that thread was interesting and I regret never watching it finish out.

Thomas Mauer
02-23-2007, 05:25 AM
They shouldn't have introduced the temporal cold war. Crossing all over with the other shows' continuity like this is one of the reasons why the show failed.

The shadow guy was from the 24th century or something and wasn't able to physically go back in time yet. So he had to do the Wizard of Oz thing to get time changed to what his people wanted.

Ryudo
02-23-2007, 05:29 AM
DS9 was never bad. NEVER.

I don't see what the deal is, either. Considering the way they portrayed the old-school Defiant in the mirror episodes, the TOS ships were a definite step up from the Enterprise NX ships in terms of looking "more futuristic."

But whatever.

TenStoryMother
02-23-2007, 05:41 AM
I never watched Enterprise when it aired but have recently begun downloading the HD versions from Xbox Live Marketplace. So far, I'm really digging the show and actually like it better than any of the previous Star Trek franchises. Maybe it's just me, but the whole premise seems more real (in the flying in space sort of way) and more accessible.

DaveCummings
02-23-2007, 06:01 AM
DS9 was never bad. NEVER.

I don't see what the deal is, either. Considering the way they portrayed the old-school Defiant in the mirror episodes, the TOS ships were a definite step up from the Enterprise NX ships in terms of looking "more futuristic."

But whatever.

True, Deep Space 9 was great from the beginning, but I thought it really started kicking ass once the whole dominion plotline started up and Sisko looked all badass with his shaved head and goatee.


TNG, I hated until the 3rd season or so. Whenever Spike shows reruns, I know when to avoid watching it when their uniforms have no collar to them or Riker is clean shaven.


Voyager, I never got into.

~Dave

Xander Boune
02-23-2007, 06:05 AM
They shouldn't have introduced the temporal cold war. Crossing all over with the other shows' continuity like this is one of the reasons why the show failed.

The shadow guy was from the 24th century or something and wasn't able to physically go back in time yet. So he had to do the Wizard of Oz thing to get time changed to what his people wanted.

So he wasn't someone revealed to be from one of the previous shows? I always assumed his grand reveal would be a TNG or DS9 villain.

Evan Wiener
02-23-2007, 06:26 AM
True, Deep Space 9 was great from the beginning, but I thought it really started kicking ass once the whole dominion plotline started up and Sisko looked all badass with his shaved head and goatee.


TNG, I hated until the 3rd season or so. Whenever Spike shows reruns, I know when to avoid watching it when their uniforms have no collar to them or Riker is clean shaven.


Voyager, I never got into.

~Dave

Next Gen had brief moments of brilliance in two bad first seasons. The last ep of season one where Riker and PIcard uncover the plotto take over the Federation on earth was nifty.

There was some suspect acting in DS9 and Voyager, and sometimes it turned me off.

Voyager was ok in spots, and just lame in others. The ship with wings design was kinda silly, and the jump to adding cheesecake with that borg chick with a skin-tight suit and huge chest was a nice job of pandering to their demographic. The aliens that destroy the borg and force Janeway into a bargain with them felt very odd for star trek. Ohh... boogity aliens that just destroy stuff. The "Aliens ATTACK!" approach felt odd in a show full of aliens.

I didn't like DS9 very much in the first season or two. Some good character moments, but the Bajoran religion angle bored me a lot. It did heat up after they got started, though, but I remember some backlash to the Dominion War story because it wasn't very "Trek" and Roddenberry wouldn't have the Federation go away from it's diplomatic exploration purpose to a war that lead to people making ethically gray decisions. One episode of DS9 comes to mind that rocked, in which Sisko made some real tough, questionable decisions to cover up the murder of a Romulan to get them on their side of the war. He creates an entire log describing everything and his involvement and at the end...

ERASES IT and covered everything up. AWESOME.

Ryudo
02-23-2007, 06:41 AM
I didn't like DS9 very much in the first season or two. Some good character moments, but the Bajoran religion angle bored me a lot. It did heat up after they got started, though, but I remember some backlash to the Dominion War story because it wasn't very "Trek" and Roddenberry wouldn't have the Federation go away from it's diplomatic exploration purpose to a war that lead to people making ethically gray decisions. One episode of DS9 comes to mind that rocked, in which Sisko made some real tough, questionable decisions to cover up the murder of a Romulan to get them on their side of the war. He creates an entire log describing everything and his involvement and at the end...

ERASES IT and covered everything up. AWESOME.

"In the Pale Moonlight." One of my favorites.

Everyone thought DS9 was bad until the Defiant was brought in or until they started the Dominion angle, or added Worf, but truthfully it was one of the best shows, definitely the most culturally relevant ST series, and even though it was heavy on the religion it was meant to be that way, because that's just how the culture of Bajor was.

Scotty
02-23-2007, 06:45 AM
[QUOTE=Dr. Omega;2772581
The theme to Enterprise was even the song I used when I proposed to my wife and we played it at our wedding..


Dr. Ω[/QUOTE]

Wow that's the dorkiest thing I've heard in a long while. Way to go!

Scotty
02-23-2007, 06:48 AM
"In the Pale Moonlight." One of my favorites.

Everyone thought DS9 was bad until the Defiant was brought in or until they started the Dominion angle, or added Worf, but truthfully it was one of the best shows, definitely the most culturally relevant ST series, and even though it was heavy on the religion it was meant to be that way, because that's just how the culture of Bajor was.

I think to cover it all you can say DS9 got awesome start of Season 3, which covers a lot what you say, it gives the Defiant, it gives the start of the Dominion Conflict ,and leads into Worf into season 4.

Mister E
02-23-2007, 06:48 AM
If it makes you feel any better, I sat through a whole episode of Voyager the other day.

Scotty
02-23-2007, 06:51 AM
If it makes you feel any better, I sat through a whole episode of Voyager the other day.

The question now is did you like it?

Mister E
02-23-2007, 06:53 AM
The question now is did you like it?

I kinda wanted to kick the asian guy in the throat, but on the bright side, I didn't gouge out my eyeballs?

Ryudo
02-23-2007, 06:54 AM
I think to cover it all you can say DS9 got awesome start of Season 3, which covers a lot what you say, it gives the Defiant, it gives the start of the Dominion Conflict ,and leads into Worf into season 4.

Okay, maybe awesome, but it was always GOOD. ;)


"So... I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garak was right about one thing, a guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant. So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it... Computer, erase that entire personal log."

Scotty
02-23-2007, 07:01 AM
I kinda wanted to kick the asian guy in the throat, but on the bright side, I didn't gouge out my eyeballs?

Yay to no self inflicted blindness!

Bill?
02-23-2007, 07:02 AM
So he wasn't someone revealed to be from one of the previous shows? I always assumed his grand reveal would be a TNG or DS9 villain.

i don't think they ever said who that guy was. they dropped the temporal cold war plot line in the beginning of season 4.

Dr. Omega
02-23-2007, 07:06 AM
I hate B&B and I am a continuity nazi, but I NEVER saw anything wrong with Enterprise..

Most people bitch about the Ferengi.. but they were never named and never spoke in anything but Ferengi..so all is well..

I loved when Manny came aboard, but the Reeves-Stevens were a bit lame. The big two parter Vulcan ep with T'Pau did absolutely nothing to further what we know of the Vulcans, but did manage to audibly rehash just about every Vulcan factoid we had learned to this point.


Dr. Ω

Foolish Mortal
02-23-2007, 07:25 AM
I hate B&B and I am a continuity nazi, but I NEVER saw anything wrong with Enterprise..

Most people bitch about the Ferengi.. but they were never named and never spoke in anything but Ferengi..so all is well..

I loved when Manny came aboard, but the Reeves-Stevens were a bit lame. The big two parter Vulcan ep with T'Pau did absolutely nothing to further what we know of the Vulcans, but did manage to audibly rehash just about every Vulcan factoid we had learned to this point.


Dr. Ω
Yes, and I believe it was either Branon or Braga that once said that the original continuity had been altered due to the events in the 'First Contact' film and the 'Future's End' episodes of Voyager. And we have to assume that the Temporal Cold War fucked up a lot of shit too.

I think this is likely since the Eugenics War happened much later than it originally did, so the continuity has been changed. So they pretty much had the freedom to do as they pleased on Enterprise.

sonnylarue
02-23-2007, 07:29 AM
To me, eneterprises two biggest flaws were annoying repetition, of not inly plots that echoed the other series, but even in itself , with the usual "hey we've been boarded and now the captain is missing" .

The series DID right itself with the season 3 arc, and the fantastic 4th seasom, but it was too late.

I also thought that the "human crew" that was making its first missions into deep space , were always corecting the aliens on their behaviour far too much.

If anything, I think Archer's crew should have taken more lumps and "learned" from their first voyages, instead of "humans" having all the morality and correct answers.

I realize they were the "heroes", but star trek always prided itself in presenting new ideas in all of the show incarnations, and I think a trek audience was ready for that kind of shift, in having a crew learn from the universe rather than "us" be the species that solves all the problems

Taxman
02-23-2007, 08:05 AM
It was a little of both.

Frankly, I'm surprised the ratings were so far in the tank considering the good press it was getting in the fan community the last season. But I know a TON of viewers that left during the second season and just never looked back. It's funny because the first two seasons of pretty much every Trek series but the original wasn't very good for it's first couple of seasons.Yeah, but one always had a higher starting point of expection going in than one did with Enterprise. The fact that Voyager never got to be very good meant that many fans were weary of Trek going in.

Ryudo
02-23-2007, 08:23 AM
Yeah, but one always had a higher starting point of expection going in than one did with Enterprise. The fact that Voyager never got to be very good meant that many fans were weary of Trek going in.

No, that just meant that Voyager blew.

Xander Boune
02-23-2007, 08:53 AM
Yeah, but one always had a higher starting point of expection going in than one did with Enterprise. The fact that Voyager never got to be very good meant that many fans were weary of Trek going in.

That's what happened to me. Voyager burned me on the franchise and I really wanted to like Enterprise, but the first season wasn't strong enough to keep me going and I just assumed it was going to stay at that level of quality.

Scotty
02-23-2007, 09:00 AM
I've been catching Voyager on Spike and I've enjoyed it, its had some nifty episodes and some lame one likes the rest of the star trek shows

Mister E
02-23-2007, 09:11 AM
I'd love to see a series chronicle the "fall of Rome." When the Federation starts to decline and fail.

Taxman
02-23-2007, 09:11 AM
I've been catching Voyager on Spike and I've enjoyed it, its had some nifty episodes and some lame one likes the rest of the star trek showsGood and bad episodes are one thing. Did that show really have any kind of arc? Where the main characters really that different at the end of the series as the were from the beginning? Could you pick a random episode and place it correctly in continuity based solely on the characterizations?

DaveCummings
02-23-2007, 10:03 AM
"In the Pale Moonlight." One of my favorites.

Everyone thought DS9 was bad until the Defiant was brought in or until they started the Dominion angle, or added Worf, but truthfully it was one of the best shows, definitely the most culturally relevant ST series, and even though it was heavy on the religion it was meant to be that way, because that's just how the culture of Bajor was.

What I loved about Deep Space 9 since the beginning was the bit of a darker edge to the stories. I wasn't really a Star Trek fan, but I grew up loving Star Wars. So, I loved Sci Fi stories that weren't all bright and shiny. I want it where ships could be prone to breaking down, conflicts within the main characters. You know, where things seemed to be closer to reality despite being Science Fiction.

It's probably why Wrath of Khan was my favorite Star Trek movie.

Mister E
02-23-2007, 10:09 AM
I told my girlfriend that the only way I'd marry her is if we have a Klingon wedding.

Yay Bachelorhood!

Thomas Mauer
02-23-2007, 10:17 AM
So he wasn't someone revealed to be from one of the previous shows? I always assumed his grand reveal would be a TNG or DS9 villain.

No, he was just some dude. There were also people from the 31st century that fought against his faction because they could map the timelines better (though the federation in their time was in flames) and knew that the Enterprise's timeline had to be preserved.

ds9
02-23-2007, 10:22 AM
What I loved about Deep Space 9 since the beginning was the bit of a darker edge to the stories. I wasn't really a Star Trek fan, but I grew up loving Star Wars. So, I loved Sci Fi stories that weren't all bright and shiny. I want it where ships could be prone to breaking down, conflicts within the main characters. You know, where things seemed to be closer to reality despite being Science Fiction.

It's probably why Wrath of Khan was my favorite Star Trek movie.me 2:D

DaveCummings
02-23-2007, 10:41 AM
me 2:D

Oh.............My...........God. Me and DS9 agree on something!

CapnChaos
02-23-2007, 01:46 PM
No, he was just some dude. There were also people from the 31st century that fought against his faction because they could map the timelines better (though the federation in their time was in flames) and knew that the Enterprise's timeline had to be preserved.

The fact that they never revealed him after making such a big deal about him was one thing that made me pretty mad. I mean, instead of taking the opportunity in the last episode to tie up a plot-thread that had been there since the first episode, they did a Next-Gen spinoff and killed off a beloved character for no reason? Guh.

Thomas Mauer
02-23-2007, 09:03 PM
The fact that they never revealed him after making such a big deal about him was one thing that made me pretty mad. I mean, instead of taking the opportunity in the last episode to tie up a plot-thread that had been there since the first episode, they did a Next-Gen spinoff and killed off a beloved character for no reason? Guh.

Yeah, that would have been nicer. But at least they did wrap up the temporal cold war. the last episode reminded me of the last episode of Babylon 5's season 4 which did a much better job of it IMO.

What's tragic is that when they knew at mid-season that season 4 would be the last of Enterprise, they finally let loose and did the cool shit they should have been doing from the beginning.

FedEx Fanboy
02-25-2007, 07:08 AM
The first two seasons of Enterprise were just... Meh. Same old rehashed Star Trek we've seen before.

Seasons 3 and 4 however were really, really good. It's a shame the show didn't get a full 7 year run, because it was just hitting it's stride.

TSChamp
02-25-2007, 07:24 AM
I have watch 3 Star Trek shows.(Original, TNG, DS9) I liked them all. I am watching Voyager on Spike and Enterprise on HDNet. Enterprise has been OK, but it feels like it is lacking something with the characters. Voyager I am enjoying because of the character dynamics.

There was a show on History Channel about the action of stuff from the shows and movie. The six foot model of Enterprise D went for 500,000. It was interesting show and recommend you catch when it is on.

Taxman
02-22-2008, 07:27 AM
Am I the last one to figure out that the Korean dude from Lost turned up in this thing?

I have been watching this on HDnet. Seems like I have seen most of the second season when it originally aired, but I did not remember a whole lot of it. FexEx is right. Most of the episodes felt like the could have been TOS or Voyager show. Really nothing to set them apart at all.

The Lost guy showed up on the ship in the third season as one of those shock troops. He had on line and then didn't seem to go on the mission. I will have to see when he shows up again.

ClintP
02-22-2008, 07:32 AM
I still need to see this show. I have been wanting to see it forever. It started coming on right after I got married and we only had one tv in our small apartment. Needless to say, my wife can not stand Star Trek so I never got to watch it. I mainly want to see it since it has the Quantum Leap guy. Is the entire series collected on dvd?

Taxman
02-22-2008, 07:34 AM
Is the entire series collected on dvd?Yes, but it is insanely over priced. I was able to get it from the library a year or so ago, but only wanted to watch specific episodes.

ClintP
02-22-2008, 07:35 AM
Yes, but it is insanely over priced. I was able to get it from the library a year or so ago, but only wanted to watch specific episodes.

I was thinking about adding it to my BB queue.

Taxman
02-22-2008, 07:35 AM
Oops, wrong again. Looks like the price was finally dropped recently.

glk
02-22-2008, 07:36 AM
Which is considered by most the worst show out of the Star Trek Franchise I'm just digging. It's a little slow the first two seasons, much like TNG, DS9, and Voyager but once 3rd Season hits it's nothing but awesome. I kind of wished it could of went to 7 seasons.

I understand why there are fans of this show.

I love Enterprise. I think it's better than Voyager. Voyager was good but the weakest, mainly because I think Kate Mulgrew was miscast and Chakote was a wet blanket. But Enterprise, especially the last season when Manny Coto started driving the show, was THA BOMB.

dasNdanger
02-22-2008, 09:46 AM
Enterprise is pretty darn good - I could NOT stand Voyager - hated God Almighty Janeway with a passion. Did like 7-of-9, and was really hoping she'd take out the bitch and take command herself.

But Enterprise? It was a decent show. Haven't had time to read through this - is it true they might be bringing it back?


das

Ryan F
02-22-2008, 09:57 AM
I liked it. I think it's miles better than Voyager but not near as good as TNG or DS9.

I think the biggest problem was just that Star Trek was a little tired after 21 seasons in 14 years. It felt like they rehashed a lot of too familiar concepts in the first two seasons, and, like Voyager, I'm not sure that they really utilized a good premise. Season 4 was pretty great though.

Also, I like Bakula, but he didn't really work as Captain for me. He's way too soft. He would've been better as a doctor in the McCoy tradition or something along those lines (though I'd hate to lose Phlox).

Thomas Mauer
02-22-2008, 10:52 AM
Am I the last one to figure out that the Korean dude from Lost turned up in this thing?

I have been watching this on HDnet. Seems like I have seen most of the second season when it originally aired, but I did not remember a whole lot of it. FexEx is right. Most of the episodes felt like the could have been TOS or Voyager show. Really nothing to set them apart at all.

The Lost guy showed up on the ship in the third season as one of those shock troops. He had on line and then didn't seem to go on the mission. I will have to see when he shows up again.

He was in the Babylon 5 spin-off Crusade before Enterprise. Makes me happy that he's working, and that with Lost, he's on a high profile show that draws viewers.

Taxman
03-11-2008, 07:52 AM
Am I the last one to figure out that the Korean dude from Lost turned up in this thing?

I have been watching this on HDnet. Seems like I have seen most of the second season when it originally aired, but I did not remember a whole lot of it. FexEx is right. Most of the episodes felt like the could have been TOS or Voyager show. Really nothing to set them apart at all.

The Lost guy showed up on the ship in the third season as one of those shock troops. He had on line and then didn't seem to go on the mission. I will have to see when he shows up again.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i284/scebass/lost-banner-1.jpg

Is this true? Was he busted for DUI also? Was it in Hawaii?

Unknown Kadath
03-11-2008, 12:06 PM
They cancelled this show just when it was hitting its stride.

mike black
03-11-2008, 12:10 PM
And HOW they did, with that "lost TNG episode" approach and lame major-character death.

"Valentine to the fans," my ass.

It wasn't "lost", it took place during a TNG episode, specifically episode 12 of the 7th season, "The Pegasus".

mike black
03-11-2008, 12:12 PM
If I remember correctly, TNG ....took 3 or 4 seasons before they found their direction and stopped sucking.

~Dave

:mistrust:

mike black
03-11-2008, 12:20 PM
No, he was just some dude. There were also people from the 31st century that fought against his faction because they could map the timelines better (though the federation in their time was in flames) and knew that the Enterprise's timeline had to be preserved.

The Federation in the 31st century was the faction Daniels worked for. They were fighting one of the other Factions - the Sphere Builders - who initiated the whole thing by trying to destroy the Federation and allow themselves to come into our universe.

This led to them bringing the Xindi in to attempt to destroy Earth, while the Sphere Builders were actively destroying the Delphic Expanse.

Sam Little
03-11-2008, 12:22 PM
I too loved this show and wish it'd gone for seven seasons. A dang shame.

Thomas Mauer
03-11-2008, 01:18 PM
They cancelled this show just when it was hitting its stride.

To be fair, the writers only let loose in season 4 when they knew the show had been axed. Had they written like this from the beginning, the show would still be alive and kicking.

Thudpucker
03-11-2008, 01:19 PM
It was ok.

Thomas Mauer
03-11-2008, 01:19 PM
The Federation in the 31st century was the faction Daniels worked for. They were fighting one of the other Factions - the Sphere Builders - who initiated the whole thing by trying to destroy the Federation and allow themselves to come into our universe.

This led to them bringing the Xindi in to attempt to destroy Earth, while the Sphere Builders were actively destroying the Delphic Expanse.

Ah, right. Been so long that I forgot parts of it. :)

mike black
03-11-2008, 08:13 PM
Ah, right. Been so long that I forgot parts of it. :)

No problem. If you only caught half of those episodes, it was tough to follow. The whole Temporal Cold War thing ran up until the 4th season when Daniels died (episode 1 and 2 of season 4, "Storm Front".)

Chris McCarver
03-11-2008, 08:19 PM
Am I the last one to figure out that the Korean dude from Lost turned up in this thing?

I have been watching this on HDnet. Seems like I have seen most of the second season when it originally aired, but I did not remember a whole lot of it. FexEx is right. Most of the episodes felt like the could have been TOS or Voyager show. Really nothing to set them apart at all.

The Lost guy showed up on the ship in the third season as one of those shock troops. He had on line and then didn't seem to go on the mission. I will have to see when he shows up again.

Second Mauer's recommendation for Crusade.

Foolish Mortal
03-11-2008, 08:19 PM
I like how they used the Temporal Cold War as a plot device to explain away any continuity discrepancies and thus giving the writers more freedom to play around with things.

Chris McCarver
03-11-2008, 08:20 PM
It wasn't "lost", it took place during a TNG episode, specifically episode 12 of the 7th season, "The Pegasus".

I'm familiar.

Still think the show should've bowed out on its own terms rather than be bookended as a 24th-century holosim.

Taxman
03-11-2008, 08:23 PM
The whole Temporal Cold War thing ran up until the 4th season when Daniels died (episode 1 and 2 of season 4, "Storm Front".):x Spoilers damnit! I am just about to watch these episodes in the next few days.

























































;-)

sonnylarue
03-11-2008, 08:46 PM
My main beef about Enterprise is that once again "the humans" have all the answers to the universes problems.

I would think that at the early stages of starfleet's existence there would be a few more mistakes made by "us" , in terms of how to deal with other races.

But no, humans are all knowing and blandly heroic.

I also think that there would be much more xenophobia from earth, given our current nature of mistrust of other earth races , let alone welcoming vulcans et al into the mix.

It seemed like the fourth season started to play with that idea, but like most things about ENT, it was too little, too late.

Berman and Braga stayed around wayyy too long and stopped having new trek ideas.

manny cotto was well on the right track, but the curtain was already comming down.

Chris McCarver
03-11-2008, 08:53 PM
My main beef about Enterprise is that once again "the humans" have all the answers to the universes problems.

I would think that at the early stages of starfleet's existence there would be a few more mistakes made by "us" , in terms of how to deal with other races.

But no, humans are all knowing and blandly heroic.

I also think that there would be much more xenophobia from earth, given our current nature of mistrust of other earth races , let alone welcoming vulcans et al into the mix.

It seemed like the fourth season started to play with that idea, but like most things about ENT, it was too little, too late.

Berman and Braga stayed around wayyy too long and stopped having new trek ideas.

manny cotto was well on the right track, but the curtain was already comming down.

That's kind of why I've been enjoying the Star Trek: Titan novels. Huge load of inter-species relations due to an 85% non-human crew. I know the makeup budget would've probably shot through the roof, but it always bothered me that ships that represent the entire Federation are staffed in the majority by the representatives of ONE PLANET.

mike black
03-11-2008, 09:00 PM
:x Spoilers damnit! I am just about to watch these episodes in the next few days.

;-)


I was going to punch you for a second there.

Taxman
03-11-2008, 09:26 PM
I was going to punch you for a second there.I did wish that I had not read that.

mike black
03-11-2008, 09:36 PM
I did wish that I had not read that.

Actually, it was a pretty good episode - very much in the vein of TOS. Plus it had the added (fan) bonus of Daniels ending his run on the show in the most degrading way possible.

By showing up as a face-melted old man. he had like six lines that amounted to "I brought you back to the 1940's to stop the final faction of the Temporal Cold War. I am now dead. ::dies in pain::"

So they're in the 1940's, and the Nazi's have seized the East Coast. Archer is shacked up with Freedom Fighters in the Bronx, and the rest of the crew has top stop aliens who are supplying the Nazis with weapons from returning to their time and winning the cold war. They beat them, Daniels reappears and says everything has been fixed, and the Temporal Ripples that have been happening (all of Enterprise, really,) have all righted themselves. Archer tells him to fuck off to hell, and he does.

Taxman
03-11-2008, 09:50 PM
Actually, it was a pretty good episode - very much in the vein of TOS. Plus it had the added (fan) bonus of Daniels ending his run on the show in the most degrading way possible.

By showing up as a face-melted old man. he had like six lines that amounted to "I brought you back to the 1940's to stop the final faction of the Temporal Cold War. I am now dead. ::dies in pain::"

So they're in the 1940's, and the Nazi's have seized the East Coast. Archer is shacked up with Freedom Fighters in the Bronx, and the rest of the crew has top stop aliens who are supplying the Nazis with weapons from returning to their time and winning the cold war. They beat them, Daniels reappears and says everything has been fixed, and the Temporal Ripples that have been happening (all of Enterprise, really,) have all righted themselves. Archer tells him to fuck off to hell, and he does.
Whatever, I really will be watching it this week.

mike black
03-11-2008, 09:55 PM
Whatever, I really will be watching it this week.

:lol:

I seriously thought you were joking. I'm sorry man. :surrend:

I took it as "I wish I hadn't read that because I wanted to pretend it didn't exist."

Caley Tibbittz
03-11-2008, 10:44 PM
I'm almost done with the Xindi stuff and I'm just digging it. i even like the CGI evil Insect guys.

The Xindi arc was excellent, great tight plotting. I liked season four pretty well, but I hated that they replaced Rick Berman as show runner just when he and Brannon Braga had really found their stride.

The biggest thing this show suffered from was a weak pilot, easily the worst of all the Trek pilots. There were a lot of high points after that. People look at the other Treks with rose-colored glasses, but they all had a shakedown phase, and Enterprise's wasn't particularly long.

I wanted seven seasons and then a movie showing the formation of the Federation. Too bad they rushed through that in the flashback finale. But the two-hour episode before that has one of Trek's best villains ever.

sonnylarue
03-11-2008, 10:51 PM
I wanted seven seasons and then a movie showing the formation of the Federation. Too bad they rushed through that in the flashback finale. But the two-hour episode before that has one of Trek's best villains ever.

I did like that the 4th season had these muti part shows that felt like movies, and yes, the last two parter with Peter Weller was outstanding.

Taxman
03-12-2008, 06:39 AM
:lol:

I seriously thought you were joking. I'm sorry man. :surrend:

I took it as "I wish I hadn't read that because I wanted to pretend it didn't exist."Nope. It was the truth but I was kidding about being mad, or having a reasonable expectation that you would have hidden it.

DaveCummings
03-12-2008, 07:07 AM
The first two seasons of Enterprise were just... Meh. Same old rehashed Star Trek we've seen before.

Seasons 3 and 4 however were really, really good. It's a shame the show didn't get a full 7 year run, because it was just hitting it's stride.

That seems to be a trend with alot of the Trek shows. They have a kinda shitty first couple of seasons, but by season 3, they find their stride and start to get good. I know TNG was definitely that. And DS9 I still loved, but I definitely loved the show when they added the dynamic of the Dominion and all of that into the series.

I still think that if Enterprise would of gotten the 7 season run that all of the other Trek shows from the last decade had, it would of been alot more well regarded. And I think it would have, if the Enterprise would of been like TNG and DS9 and been on syndication from the beginning, instead on the joke of a network that is UPN.

mike black
03-12-2008, 07:21 AM
Nope. It was the truth but I was kidding about being mad, or having a reasonable expectation that you would have hidden it.

I'm sorry man.

Taxman
03-13-2008, 08:45 AM
I'm sorry man.I guess spoiler really can't be avoided. I watched the season three finale last night and noticed Jeffery Combs in the credits. So yeah, that pretty much put a damper on his "dramatic" entrance.

This sort of thing happens a lot. I remember a while back my kid asking me what I thought when Boone showed up in a certain Lost episode. I had seen his name in the opening credits as well so, not much.

Foolish Mortal
03-13-2008, 08:50 AM
Jeffrey Combs really puts on a Tour-de-Force performance in his appearances. He made Shran into a very complex individual in very short time.

Taxman
03-18-2008, 09:38 AM
Jeffrey Combs really puts on a Tour-de-Force performance in his appearances. He made Shran into a very complex individual in very short time.Even thought he was a complete snake in the grass in the episode where he went into the Expanse, he was right in what he said. Those Vulcans didn't life a goddamned finger to try to protect Earth, a planet they were supposedly shepherding according to their own proclamations. :x

Scotty
03-18-2008, 09:57 AM
Jeffrey Combs really puts on a Tour-de-Force performance in his appearances. He made Shran into a very complex individual in very short time.

He was going to join the cast as a full member if they would of gotten to a 5th Season. If there is another Star Trek Series Jeffery combs needs to be a cast member he's paid his dues.

mike black
03-18-2008, 10:05 AM
Even thought he was a complete snake in the grass in the episode where he went into the Expanse, he was right in what he said. Those Vulcans didn't life a goddamned finger to try to protect Earth, a planet they were supposedly shepherding according to their own proclamations. :x

Shran really shone as one of the strongest characters in the series. I think he ranks up there as one of my favorite Trek characters of all time.

I tell you what, though, Berman & Braga fucking hated the Vulcans. They went so far out of their way to make them into douchebags it was hard to give a fuck about any of them (especially T'Pol early on.)

Taxman
03-22-2008, 04:34 PM
No problem. If you only caught half of those episodes, it was tough to follow. The whole Temporal Cold War thing ran up until the 4th season when Daniels died (episode 1 and 2 of season 4, "Storm Front".)Daniels turned up alive again at then end of the thing.


Also, did you ever notice in the 3rd season finale.

The lizard men scanned Degra's ship and said that there were seven human life signs. There were only six on the ship though; the Quantum Leap guy, the Asian chick, the Australian dude and the three shock troops he recruited for the mission. I thought that it must have meant that there was a hidden human on the ship likely Daniels, or a second Archer, but nothing ever came of this.

4th season, 2nd episode

In the news reel it looked like the Chrysler Building was heavily damaged. Then in the sky combat sequence it was completely in tack. I went back and looked at the news reel again, and I couldn't tell. It may well have been just dark shadows, but I liked the idea of battle damage in Manhattan.

Foolish Mortal
03-22-2008, 05:53 PM
Even thought he was a complete snake in the grass in the episode where he went into the Expanse, he was right in what he said. Those Vulcans didn't life a goddamned finger to try to protect Earth, a planet they were supposedly shepherding according to their own proclamations. :x


Shran really shone as one of the strongest characters in the series. I think he ranks up there as one of my favorite Trek characters of all time.

I tell you what, though, Berman & Braga fucking hated the Vulcans. They went so far out of their way to make them into douchebags it was hard to give a fuck about any of them (especially T'Pol early on.)
The Vulcans essentially viewed Earthians as the "Retarded Kid Brother" that was a pain in the ass, but nevertheless they had to look out for.

They thought humanity was too impetuous and relied on emotions and instinct too much rather than on cold logic.

They did want humanity to progress, but only at a pace dictated by them, which irked most humans.

But I think helping found the Federation gave the Vulcans pause and they started seeing humanity in a new light.

Foolish Mortal
03-22-2008, 05:57 PM
He was going to join the cast as a full member if they would of gotten to a 5th Season. If there is another Star Trek Series Jeffery combs needs to be a cast member he's paid his dues.
I could definitely see Combs as a shrewd, wily captain. It would go against type of most of Star Trek's previous captains.

mike black
03-22-2008, 06:07 PM
The Vulcans essentially viewed Earthians as the "Retarded Kid Brother" that was a pain in the ass, but nevertheless they had to look out for.

They thought humanity was too impetuous and relied on emotions and instinct too much rather than on cold logic.

They did want humanity to progress, but only at a pace dictated by them, which irked most humans.

But I think helping found the Federation gave the Vulcans pause and they started seeing humanity in a new light.

You're looking at it from a Vulcan point of view. They were also conducting a cold war and actively manipulating multiple races across the quadrant.

Princesa
03-22-2008, 06:26 PM
I liked it till they went all 9-11

Foolish Mortal
03-22-2008, 06:42 PM
You're looking at it from a Vulcan point of view. They were also conducting a cold war and actively manipulating multiple races across the quadrant.
There is a subculture with Vulcans in which they harbor the desire for everyone else in the galaxy to be like them. That's why they resort to so much subterfuge in order to maintain a semblance of order, because they really didn't trust other races to keep the peace.

But humanity had the better idea with the Federation. Negotiating peace through openness rather than espionage.

Taxman
03-23-2008, 02:29 PM
But I think helping found the Federation gave the Vulcans pause and they started seeing humanity in a new light.I thought that they three part arc with the young, hot T'Pau was supposed to be where the Vulcans had unfucked themselves.

Jonathan Callan
03-23-2008, 03:22 PM
Which is considered by most the worst show out of the Star Trek Franchise I'm just digging. It's a little slow the first two seasons, much like TNG, DS9, and Voyager but once 3rd Season hits it's nothing but awesome. I kind of wished it could of went to 7 seasons.

I understand why there are fans of this show.


What To Do If You Like Star Trek: Enterprise
1. Don't panic.
2.Do a quick self-check. Are you mentally retarded? Are you Scott Bakula?
4. If the answer to these two is "no", simply lay down and wait to die.

Taxman
03-24-2008, 03:14 PM
I wasn't really too keen on the finale episode at all.

The fact that T]Pol and Tucker's relationship ended was pretty disappointing.The implication is that the intervening six years of Enterprise's mission was a relative snooze fest.The Enterprise-D stuff, I felt added nothing. It was also a pretty strange dichotomy to have people looking younger than they should in part of the episode, and people looking older than they should in other parts.I watched the video of the wrap party which was a bonus on the DVD. I found it interesting that Blalock and Trinneer did not attend.

Ryan F
03-24-2008, 03:18 PM
I wasn't really too keen on the finale episode at all.

The fact that T]Pol and Tucker's relationship ended was pretty disappointing.The implication is that the intervening six years of Enterprise's mission was a relative snooze fest.The Enterprise-D stuff, I felt added nothing. It was also a pretty strange dichotomy to have people looking younger than they should in part of the episode, and people looking older than they should in other parts.I watched the video of the wrap party which was a bonus on the DVD. I found it interesting that Blalock and Trinneer did not attend.

I agree on all three points. #3 was especially awkward.

The fourth season was great. The series finale was not.

Scotty
03-24-2008, 03:26 PM
What To Do If You Like Star Trek: Enterprise
1. Don't panic.
2.Do a quick self-check. Are you mentally retarded? Are you Scott Bakula?
4. If the answer to these two is "no", simply lay down and wait to die.


I don't wanna die thank goodness I'm mentally retarded.

Jonathan Callan
03-24-2008, 05:23 PM
I don't wanna die thank goodness I'm mentally retarded.

Indeed.

Chris McCarver
03-24-2008, 06:23 PM
I wasn't really too keen on the finale episode at all.

The fact that T]Pol and Tucker's relationship ended was pretty disappointing.The implication is that the intervening six years of Enterprise's mission was a relative snooze fest.The Enterprise-D stuff, I felt added nothing. It was also a pretty strange dichotomy to have people looking younger than they should in part of the episode, and people looking older than they should in other parts.I watched the video of the wrap party which was a bonus on the DVD. I found it interesting that Blalock and Trinneer did not attend.

There's also #4:

The finale being so maligned that Pocket Books released an Enterprise novel that rewrote things for a somewhat more palatable ending.