Omega Flight Colored Image/Brevoort reaction to fans [Archive]

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 08:31 AM

Artisit: Marc Silvestri
From: Civil War: The Initiative

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/CivilWarTheInitiative.jpg
====
Well Tom Brevoort let's lose on the Omega Flight fans and holds nothing back. I doubt he even look at the Fight for Flight site or read the emails sent to Marvel as they were all screened to not be venom-filled ie. insulting.

http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=1904&highlight=

Jen Grunwald

02-10-2007, 09:17 AM

I find it strange that people are clamoring for a book they haven't even read yet... I am a HUGE fan of Oeming, but still, you never know, you may not even like it! (It IS doubtful, yes, as Mike kicks ass!)

I don't know, I just feel like this stuff should wait until the book is actually available!

And maybe Tom seemed a little snarky, but it CAN be frustrating for the editors to get stuff like this. You don't know how THEY feel, they might be JUST as upset as you that their book was cut down to a mini-series. Editors are people too! :)

:rogue:

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 09:57 AM

The site specifically says to promote the book get the word out and of course mostly buy copies. Hardly anything wrong with that, you would think Marvel would approve of that kind of commitment.

Actually Ben the creator of the Fight for Flight screens the emails and doesn't let any emails get through that are hateful even in the contact page Ben directly states not to do it.

and I quote: "Through this email form, you will be sending your opinions directly to Joe Quesada (Marvel editor in Chief), and to the editorial office for X-Men related books. We do ask that you remain respectful while expressing you point, much more is accomplished this way."
===
EDIT: Wow just found out Ben made a civil reply back due to Tom's comments which were rude to the fans so whoever deleted his message. I lost all respect for Tom now.

Good marketing... let's further piss off the people who will support the book

Jen Grunwald

02-10-2007, 10:34 AM

EDIT: Wow just found out Ben made a civil reply back due to Tom's comments which were rude to the fans so whoever deleted his message. I lost all respect for Tom now.

I'm sorry, I can't really follow this... Are you saying Ben's response to Tom was deleted? (Sorry, I just couldn't figure out what this sentence meant! :-P) That would be weird though, if true, that's not like Tom at all.

:rogue:

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 10:38 AM

I'm sorry, I can't really follow this... Are you saying Ben's response to Tom was deleted? (Sorry, I just couldn't figure out what this sentence meant! :-P) That would be weird though, if true, that's not like Tom at all.

:rogue:

Sorry I'm tired so I don't read over what I write to grammer check. Tom or a Marvel mod did delete Ben's post, which can be seen in the link I provided. Tom posted inaccurate information about Fight for Flight and Ben responded in a complete civil manner, even thanking him for giving the book more attention and in turn his post was deleted. Completly unjustified
====
EDIT: Concerning the hate emails this is what Ben said:

"And I just looked through a pile of emails, and people have gone out of their way to be polite in their letters, none can be seen a rude, and definitely not "irate, venom-filled". He put his foot in is, and is trying to be sure people don't notice. I hope he makes some response to me, and puts my post back up.

Ben"

sephirothskiller

02-10-2007, 10:42 AM

And maybe Tom seemed a little snarky, but it CAN be frustrating for the editors to get stuff like this. You don't know how THEY feel, they might be JUST as upset as you that their book was cut down to a mini-series. Editors are people too! :)

:rogue:

Editors are people too? Jeez, next you'll tell me that elementary school teachers have a life outside of school and don't live in their classrooms.

Jen Grunwald

02-10-2007, 10:43 AM

Sorry I'm tired so I don't read over what I write to grammer check. Tom or a Marvel mod did delete Ben's post, which can be seen in the link I provided. Tom posted inaccurate information about Fight for Flight and Ben responded in a complete civil manner, even thanking him for giving the book more attention and in turn his post was deleted. Completly unjustified
====
EDIT: Concerning the hate emails this is what Ben said:

"And I just looked through a pile of emails, and people have gone out of their way to be polite in their letters, none can be seen a rude, and definitely not "irate, venom-filled". He put his foot in is, and is trying to be sure people don't notice. I hope he makes some response to me, and puts my post back up.

Ben"

I just checked and the response was not deleted. There is sometimes a waiting period with blog posts (I don't really know how it works) and they have to be approved. They were there, just no one had checked yet to approve them. I just did, however, so it's there. Honestly, it is VERY unlike Tom to delete posts. Maybe if they were offensive (which I think is why the approval feature is there), but not otherwise.

Hope you gained a little respect for Tom back! :) He really is a great person, he's one of my favourite co-workers!!

:rogue:

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 10:46 AM

There we go, Ben's post has just been added back.

The wonders of making some noise to be heard.

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 10:47 AM

I just checked and the response was not deleted. There is sometimes a waiting period with blog posts (I don't really know how it works) and they have to be approved. They were there, just no one had checked yet to approve them. I just did, however, so it's there. Honestly, it is VERY unlike Tom to delete posts. Maybe if they were offensive (which I think is why the approval feature is there), but not otherwise.

Hope you gained a little respect for Tom back! :) He really is a great person, he's one of my favourite co-workers!!

:rogue:

No they deleted it, they just readded it now. I read it in the bloq first and then it was removed shortly after. People got annoyed and thus it was added back.

Still lost respect for him the way he acted towards the fans of Omega Flight and posted inaccurate and unjustified information.

Jen Grunwald

02-10-2007, 10:49 AM

There we go, Ben's post has just been added back.

The wonders of making some noise to be heard.

??? Did you not just read my post?? It wasn't added BACK b/c it WASN'T deleted in the first place. There were A TON of other response that weren't approved yet either, some of them praising Tom, which I just approved. I'm the one that heard your "noise" and thought to check to see if they were approved yet. I approved about 10 posts! I thought you'd be happy I did that, no need to get snooty!

:rogue:

Jen Grunwald

02-10-2007, 10:51 AM

No they deleted it, they just readded it now. I read it in the bloq first and then it was removed shortly after. People got annoyed and thus it was added back.

Listen, I work there! I have approval access. I am the one that JUST approved it JUST not!!! I PROMISE you! It wasn't deleted!!!!!! TRUST ME! Why would he have deleted all those other posts that actually agree with him? I just approved THOSE too!

:rogue:

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 10:53 AM

??? Did you not just read my post?? It wasn't added BACK b/c it WASN'T deleted in the first place. There were A TON of other response that weren't approved yet either, some of them praising Tom, which I just approved. I'm the one that heard your "noise" and thought to check to see if they were approved yet. I approved about 10 posts! I thought you'd be happy I did that, no need to get snooty!

:rogue:

You missed what I said, it was already approved and actually on the bloq page for awhile. Then for no reason it was gone no explanation just gone. It wasn't awaiting approval until after it vanished.

I'm not getting snooty at you, but annoyed by the comments from Tom.

Listen, I work there! I have approval access. I am the one that JUST approved it JUST not!!! I PROMISE you! It wasn't deleted!!!!!! TRUST ME! Why would he have deleted all those other posts that actually agree with him? I just approved THOSE too!

:rogue:

Like I said it was already on the bloq, it was approved and people could read it and then it was gone.

It would have been approved as I read it on the bloq, then deapproved vanishing and then you approved it again to bring it back.

Jen Grunwald

02-10-2007, 11:02 AM

You missed what I said, it was already approved and actually on the bloq page for awhile. Then for no reason it was gone no explanation just gone. It wasn't awaiting approval until after it vanished.

I'm not getting snooty at you, but annoyed by the comments from Tom.

Like I said it was already on the bloq, it was approved and people could read it and then it was gone.

It would have been approved as I read it on the bloq, then deapproved vanishing and then you approved it again to bring it back.

All right, fine, don't believe me. I know it seems weird, I'm not really sure how it works, but this stuff happens on my blog all the time. I'll talk to Pete about it. When you post a response, it's there right away, but then sometimes they're like - hidden - or whatever, and then when I sign on with the trades department login, I'll see posts that re highlighted orange that are awaiting apprroval. Again, I'm not really sure why it works this way, it's probably viewable immediately so that the poster can see that it went through, but I don't know how long the delay is before it goes into "needing approval" mode. I have deleted inappropriate posts before and trust me, they are DELETED. There's no bringing them back. There's two choices, approve or delete.

But whatever, if you choose to believe that Tom had it in for this Ben person, then I'm sure NOTHING I say can disuade you. I only hope that anyone else reading this can tell that I'm not making this up.

Sorry this stuff upset you so much.

:rogue:

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 11:11 AM

All right, fine, don't believe me. I know it seems weird, I'm not really sure how it works, but this stuff happens on my blog all the time. I'll talk to Pete about it. When you post a response, it's there right away, but then sometimes they're like - hidden - or whatever, and then when I sign on with the trades department login, I'll see posts that re highlighted orange that are awaiting apprroval. Again, I'm not really sure why it works this way, it's probably viewable immediately so that the poster can see that it went through, but I don't know how long the delay is before it goes into "needing approval" mode. I have deleted inappropriate posts before and trust me, they are DELETED. There's no bringing them back. There's two choices, approve or delete.

But whatever, if you choose to believe that Tom had it in for this Ben person, then I'm sure NOTHING I say can disuade you. I only hope that anyone else reading this can tell that I'm not making this up.

Sorry this stuff upset you so much.

:rogue:

That does't make much sense, so the post would be visible and then after a delay would vanish to await approval? If that's the system in place, that's horrible. I basically could make any comment I want and it would stay until the delay is done? yesh. I truely hope that's not your system. If it's like editing the Marvel Universe entries your posts or edits can't be seen until it's approved. So if that's how it operates in the bloq then I apologize, still annoyed with Tom's quotes in general and the "deleted or not deleted" debate won't change it.

Well I don't know if it was Tom or a Marvel mod, but like I said the post was there before hand for quite awhile. I'm not making this up, even in the alpha waves link I posted people noticed Ben's post just vanished even when it was on there for awhile

I appreciate you checking into it, but Tom's comments were unjustified.

benjaminlwells

02-10-2007, 11:44 AM

Ok, so it was my post that is in question, and I freely admit I may have over-reacted. To me It seemed odd since I responded to Tom B's comments, and it showed up for a while, then was gone. I jumped to conclusions, and for that I am sorry, I'm glad that it was approved, as I feel that many points I made are important to put some of the things Tom B. said into perspective.

I'm sorry if I got people worked up over nothing, and I'm sorry if I jumped to conclusions.

Ben

Phil

02-10-2007, 11:44 AM

That coloured image is pretty damn stunning.
Loving Sasquatch!!!!

Ziggy

02-10-2007, 11:48 AM

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 11:58 AM

i think jen deleted the post herself. but she memorized it first, so then after a big stink was made about it's deletion, she used her SUPER MARVEL ACCESS POWER to sign in as this ben character and retyped the post word for word from memory.

laughing all the way.

or something.

Other bloqs I go to if you delete a comment it remains in a somewhat trash bin to await further instructions and judgment. You can completly delete it from the system or approve it. Also I never once said Jen did it.

The way the system is set up, no wonder people could get that impression it was deleted. ie. Post was there for a amount of time and then suddenly vanish.

Phil

02-10-2007, 12:09 PM

Won't somebody please think of the children????????

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 12:10 PM

Won't somebody please think of the children????????

I'm good with the "deleted or not deleted" debate, still annoyed with Tom's comments though.

Juggernaut

02-10-2007, 04:51 PM

Look,all that matters is,you want the book to become an ongoing,then pre-order it and have friends preorder it. That's all.

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 04:54 PM

Yeah I did it over a month ago, and got others to sign up for it as well.

Mek

02-10-2007, 05:16 PM

Tom's a moron for doing something that he SHOULD have done one-on-one with the owner of the petition.

Just... what the hell. I can understand the frustration at nasty messages, but this is just unprofessional in how he handled it.

Oh, and that coloring of the Silvestri picture is bland. Beta Ray Bill's costume looks even worse now... if such a level of suckitude can go that high.

And yes, I too have pre-ordered OF and have pimped it out to my friends as well.

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 05:35 PM

Actually the site isn't a petition and Ben screens the emails that are nasty and warns on the site not to do it. That's what irritated many.

Mek

02-10-2007, 06:35 PM

Actually the site isn't a petition and Ben screens the emails that are nasty and warns on the site not to do it. That's what irritated many.

No kiddin'.

From my interaction with him, Ben is a very nice, well-to-do guy. I doubt he has a vendetta against Marvel or anything of the sorts and the whole 'Save the Flight' campaign is probably the most well-run and considerate petition-y thing I've come across... and that's saying alot, considering how disingenuous most are.

I just HATE how pretentious and condescending Tom sounded in his blog entry. I can understand and acknowledge his frustration at getting dozens of those e-mails, but PLEASE! At the very least he couldn't have sounded THAT butthurt. =/

What he did, IMHO, was essentially called out -and humiliated- Ben and made the Omega Flight fans look bad. I think Ben handled his response with the utmost tact and consideration, whereas most people in his position would have run away all whiny-like and vow to NEVAR BUY MARVEL COMICS AGAIN!!?1/2~!

King_Mungi

02-10-2007, 07:06 PM

The Fight for Flight is a means to promote the book, get the word out and most importantly buy copies. Yeah Ben was very level-headed continued to call Tom, Mr.Brevoort. He handled it with perfect class, can't say the same about Tom.

Ziggy

02-10-2007, 08:26 PM

i still say this is jen's doing. in fact, some new information has come to light that suggests jen logged in as tom brevoort and wrote the initial post that started this all.

hmmmm...

Jen Grunwald

02-10-2007, 11:31 PM

i still say this is jen's doing. in fact, some new information has come to light that suggests jen logged in as tom brevoort and wrote the initial post that started this all.

hmmmm...

I love you. :heart:

:rogue:

J.D. Lombardi

02-11-2007, 05:10 AM

This thread only demonstrates why the terrorists will win.

lol

In any event, the image that is in the first post is well beyond "hot." If only cover artists at both Marvel and DC DID the books they put pretty covers on...(sighs)

Oeming

02-11-2007, 06:27 AM

Tom Breevort is a friend of mine. Think what you want, say what you want, post what you want, but do it with tact, please? Name calling not so welcomed.

Tschloendorn

02-11-2007, 07:04 AM

Tom Breevort is a friend of mine. Think what you want, say what you want, post what you want, but do it with tact, please? Name calling not so welcomed.

"Kick His Ass SEABASS!"

King_Mungi

02-11-2007, 08:14 AM

Tom Breevort is a friend of mine. Think what you want, say what you want, post what you want, but do it with tact, please? Name calling not so welcomed.

I never called him names, I said I lost respect for him.

varo

02-11-2007, 08:20 AM

mike and jen, i completely understand where you guys are coming from as you both have a personal friendship with tom and know him as tom not tom the editor at marvel, i would back a friend of mine up right or wrong as well. but if they were wrong i would tell them "your my friend and i will always back you up, but in this case your wrong" in private.

but comments like this to a group of dedicated fans who are doing all they can to make sure a title is successful is unprofessional.

And they don't just whine about it, as most of these fan protestors do--they go out there and get the job done

Because that's the bottom line--we're a publisher, and we're in the business of making titles that people want to read. Anything else is just pissing in the wind.

now, i'm not going to get into a "venom" filled rant as i believe there may be a method to toms madness, creating this blog has gained omega publicity (a great man once said there is no such thing as bad publicity) so willingly or not he has created a buzz to the title plus that silvestri drawing is unreal.

trust me, all of us fans that wish to make this title successful know the only way this will happen is by sales, not petitions, and thats what we are trying to do, promote interest in the book, buy and order multiple issues, and turn our friends on to the series.

Johnny C. TheLastHorseman

02-11-2007, 01:26 PM

I'm sorry, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with anything that Tom said. The guy said he'd been recieving a bunch of angry letters. He found them rude, regardless of their intent, that's how he took them, I'm not going to tell a guy how to feel, no-one should. Then he went on to point out that angry letter writing does nothing positive-- which is correct. Sales are sales, THAT's what's going to make this book, bugging Marvel (rudely OR politely) will do NOTHING. People sending emails to Marvel are barking up the wrong tree. You have to convince CONSUMERS to extend this book, not the publisher.

RatCat

02-11-2007, 02:00 PM

Personally I don't I think it's very smart business to insult your customers... regardless of what they are saying the customer is always right.

Mek

02-11-2007, 02:14 PM

Think what you want, say what you want, post what you want, but do it with tact, please? Name calling not so welcomed.

Oh, but where's the fun in that?

... Fine, fine. I'll drop the name calling. =/

But I just think it's a little odd for him to act butthurt about this, when he's probably gotten FAR more nastier things/death threats over 'Civil War', but that's just my 2 cents.

Johnny C. TheLastHorseman

02-11-2007, 02:17 PM

The only thing I saw in his statement that could be considered insulting is the part where he says (and I'm paraphrasing) "Don't just whine about it, do something about it." And well, let's be honest, internet fans whine about stuff they don't like, I do it, you do it, we all do it. Also, insulting or not, he is correct. Writing angry letters to Marvel does nothing positive, it most likely hurts more than it helps. People talk about the "tone" of his comments, I don't think it would be going out on much a limb to assume that the "tone" of these e-mails were any less angry or rude. I really hope this mini excells, I love Oeming's work, I like the concept of this book, but I know that bugging Marvel about it does no good.

RatCat

02-11-2007, 02:26 PM

There are a lot of AF fans at that site who are very insulted by his comments. Whether it is warranted or not I can't say... after all I'm not going to tell someone how to feel ether.

I'm as big an AF as your likely to find and personally it didn't really bother me much, but if someone tells me they are hurt or offended by something, I tend to believe them and respect that.

All I'm saying is that I find it puzzling why someone would insult the core fan base of a book they are trying to promote... After all these are the people who are going to buy multiple copies and promote the hell out of the book for free.

Aren't they?

Ziggy

02-11-2007, 03:08 PM

I love you. :heart:

:rogue:

and the truth comes out!

...see ya in 2 weeks...

Corvus

02-11-2007, 03:35 PM

Tom Breevort is a friend of mine. Think what you want, say what you want, post what you want, but do it with tact, please? Name calling not so welcomed.

This is good advice. I hope you pass it along to Mr. Breevort as well. Some random stranger telling you you've acted poorly doesn't carry as much weight as when a friend tells you you were out of line.

Johnny C. TheLastHorseman

02-11-2007, 04:10 PM

I'm as big an AF as your likely to find and personally it didn't really bother me much, but if someone tells me they are hurt or offended by something, I tend to believe them and respect that.

Just as if someone says they got a bunch of anrgy emails that they considered to be rude and/or whiny, I tend to believe and respect that. Breevort thought that people were going about the wrong (a negative and futile) way of doing something, and then told them what he thought would be the more effective way of trying to accomplish thier goal. However insulting some found his comments, which I just don't see, he's not wrong. Personally, I think there's a LOT of unwarranted overratection here.

varo

02-11-2007, 04:40 PM

the owner of that petition screens every single email that comes through and clearly states that emails that come across as rude or negative will not be forwarded. so he may be getting nasty emails. but it's not from that petition.

direct quote from the petition:

1. Buy the title as it comes out. If you can, buy more than one copy and give it to a friend. You might make a new fan, and it will support the book. The best way to convince Marvel that people want this title is through pre-orders, this gets more books into circulation. So pre-order your copies today!
2. Through this email form, you will be sending your opinions directly to Joe Quesada (Marvel editor in Chief), and to the editorial office for X-Men related books. We do ask that you remain respectful while expressing you point, much more is accomplished this way

RatCat

02-11-2007, 04:52 PM

Just as if someone says they got a bunch of anrgy emails that they considered to be rude and/or whiny, I tend to believe and respect that.

Actually he never said he got any e-mails at all. He said other people got them.

From the sound of it I don't know if he even read the e-mails in question.

BronxRonin

02-11-2007, 07:52 PM

LoL!
I respect what the fans are trying accomplish...i wish them luck.In the meantime we get Spider-Ham. ;)

Juggernaut

02-11-2007, 09:14 PM

alot of the alpha flight fans here are overreacting a bit. What's done is done just preorder the books and let it end at that.

BronxRonin

02-12-2007, 04:12 AM

alot of the alpha flight fans here are overreacting a bit. What's done is done just preorder the books and let it end at that.

I'm sure their listening to you...;-)

BronxRonin

02-12-2007, 04:13 AM

alot of the alpha flight fans here are overreacting a bit. What's done is done just preorder the books and let it end at that.

I'm sure they're listening to you...;-)

Jen Grunwald

02-12-2007, 06:03 AM

I'm sure they're listening to you...;-)

hehe LOVE the grammar corrected post! :) After my own heart! :-P

:rogue:

Oeming

02-12-2007, 06:44 AM

hehe LOVE the grammar corrected post! :) After my own heart! :-P

:rogue:

What are you, a fucking edit- oh, wait...

Oeming

02-12-2007, 06:50 AM

The petition is great, it shows lot of love and heart, but honestly the ONLY thing to keep OF on going would be sales. The effort would be more effective if it were aimed at getting retailers to pre order and support the book.

OR... you can even wait to see if it's something you WANT to see ongoing:) Im not a super hero kind of writer and I've never set out to write super heroes specifically. One of the things that attracted me to AF was that it always was different from your typical men-in-tights book, so in the end, even if I dont screw it up it just might not be the kind of thing hard core AF fans want.

I already feel fantastic expectations being built up, and when if I dont meet them I'll have to borrow Bendis' "Hawkeye bunker" he had built:)