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Craig C
02-02-2007, 04:52 PM
When do you think Morgan le Fay will make an appearance?

Vonn Hennigar
02-02-2007, 04:54 PM
Never liked her, so hopefully never.

John Drake
02-02-2007, 04:56 PM
When do you think Morgan le Fay will make an appearance?

Third arc maybe?

bartleby
02-02-2007, 05:03 PM
Isn't Tom Burgos supposed to make this thread?

Tom Burgos
02-02-2007, 05:39 PM
In one of Bendis podcasts, (this way before anyone knew that Doc woud be a New Avenger) I asked him if the celtic witch would be back to plague Jessica, and Bendis said that she would.

So I am hoping and praying and wishing that he hasn't changed his mind, because now that Stephen is part of the team, they would have a better chance of fighting whatever she throws at them.
And Morgan has a history with both Jessica and Stephen (she fought the Doc on Avengers # 241-242 for the soul of Jessica and after he beat her, she swore to be his enemy forever)


Please, Brian, don't let me down, please??? :sad: :mrgreen:

John Drake
02-02-2007, 05:44 PM
In one of Bendis podcasts, (this way before anyone knew that Doc woud be a New Avenger) I asked him if the celtic witch would be back to plague Jessica, and Bendis said that she would.

So I am hoping and praying and wishing that he hasn't changed his mind, because now that Stephen is part of the team, they would have a better chance of fighting whatever she throws at them.
And Morgan has a history with both Jessica and Stephen (she fought the Doc on Avengers # 241-242 for the soul of Jessica and after he beat her, she swore to be his enemy forever)


Please, Brian, don't let me down, please??? :sad: :mrgreen:
Since you know a lot about her, who is she?

Seriously, I know nothing about her.

Lord Jermaine Retail
02-02-2007, 05:45 PM
Never liked her, so hopefully never.

We're in agreement. The one thing worse than Marvel's Morgan Le Fey is.....DC's Morgan Le Fey. :no:

Vonn Hennigar
02-02-2007, 05:51 PM
Since you know a lot about her, who is she?

Seriously, I know nothing about her.

Here's some light-reading :eek:

Morgan Le Fay Bio (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/morganlefay.htm)

Tom Burgos
02-02-2007, 05:54 PM
Lord Jermaine Retail and Von Hennigar, you both crazy! :mrgreen: (I keed, I Keed!)


Morgan kicks ass imo.
(Marvel's Morgan, not to be confused with DC's Morgayne or DC's Circe, who shares Marvel's Morgan's penchant for green dresses and purple hair! :scared: )

Vonn Hennigar
02-02-2007, 06:03 PM
Still think she was a really weak choice to kick off Avengers Volume 3 by Kurt Busiek and George Perez.

They should have gone with Loki or Kang imo.

Tom Burgos
02-02-2007, 06:13 PM
Still think she was a really weak choice to kick off Avengers Volume 3 by Kurt Busiek and George Perez.

They should have gone with Loki or Kang imo.


I was glad they chose her.
Loki and/or Kang would've been the obvious choices probably, but even at that point, they had been so overused.

In any case, I wish that Marvel starts using more villainesses , and building them up in the same way they use the bad guys, I don't see any reason why there shouldn't be a female villain on the same level of Dr.Doom and Magneto, in terms of notoriety, favor among fanboys and creators and overall presence in the MU.

It's something that always felt silly to me, even though with the industry being such a male dominated club, I can understand why there are no Red Skull-Dr.Doom-Magneto-Green Goblin-level villainesses...

Vonn Hennigar
02-02-2007, 06:19 PM
Because women aren't scary :?

Enchantress - I'll destroy you all, AFTER you stop staring at my ass.

Tom Burgos
02-02-2007, 06:24 PM
Because women aren't scary :?

Enchantress - I'll destroy you all, AFTER you stop staring at my ass.

No seriously, dude...

I think you are joking but...that's the way MALE writers have always written all these female characters for the longest time.
That's my whole point...if these guys keep portraying these villainesses as "lame" and "bimbos", then that's the way they will cement their reputations and everyone else after them will use the "nah, she isn't scary, let's just use her as window dressing but for a real menace let's use Kang/Magneto/Green Gobling for the 200 millionth time; now those are cool, scary villains!!!" argument...

Foolish Mortal
02-02-2007, 06:34 PM
Because women aren't scary :?

Enchantress - I'll destroy you all, AFTER you stop staring at my ass.
Ah, so the truth comes out. It's not that you don't like Morgan, you just don't like female villains. ;)


I was glad they chose her.
Loki and/or Kang would've been the obvious choices probably, but even at that point, they had been so overused.

In any case, I wish that Marvel starts using more villainesses , and building them up in the same way they use the bad guys, I don't see any reason why there shouldn't be a female villain on the same level of Dr.Doom and Magneto, in terms of notoriety, favor among fanboys and creators and overall presence in the MU.

It's something that always felt silly to me, even though with the industry being such a male dominated club, I can understand why there are no Red Skull-Dr.Doom-Magneto-Green Goblin-level villainesses...
Because most male writers seem incapable of writing malevolent women.

Keith Giffen is the only male writer I can think of that can write really bad ass villainesses. That's based on how he wrote Umar in the Defenders mini, and Caliginous in Hero Squared.

Vonn Hennigar
02-02-2007, 06:39 PM
I think Cassandra Nova is one of the best villains created in the last quarter-century.

But she's the exception rather than the rule.

Tom Burgos
02-02-2007, 06:40 PM
Ah, so the truth comes out. It's not that you don't like Morgan, you just don't like female villains. ;)


Because most male writers seem incapable of writing malevolent women.

Keith Giffen is the only male writer I can think of that can write really bad ass villainesses. That's based on how he wrote Umar in the Defenders mini, and Caliginous in Hero Squared.


Hey, what's the 411 on those two things?

Was Umar really well written in that Defenders thing?
Wasn't she written as a comedy thing?
Not that comedy would necessarily invalidate solid writing, but how can she be scary if she is a funny villain?
Tell me more about it, please!


And who was Caliginous?
And what is Hero Squared?

Thanks!

Tom Burgos
02-02-2007, 06:41 PM
I think Cassandra Nova is one of the best villains created in the last quarter-century.

But she's the exception rather than the rule.


I absolutely agree with Cassandra Nova being a great villain.

Is she even used anymore?

Vonn Hennigar
02-02-2007, 06:45 PM
I absolutely agree with Cassandra Nova being a great villain.

Is she even used anymore?

She's been Heavily featured in the last year of Astonishing X-Men.

Plus Chris Claremont used her as essentially the X-Men's greatest foe in X-Men : The End, well at least the final 3rd of it.

Foolish Mortal
02-02-2007, 07:04 PM
Hey, what's the 411 on those two things?

Was Umar really well written in that Defenders thing?
Wasn't she written as a comedy thing?
Not that comedy would necessarily invalidate solid writing, but how can she be scary if she is a funny villain?
Tell me more about it, please!


And who was Caliginous?
And what is Hero Squared?

Thanks!
Hero Squared was a mini-series last year about a superhero called Captain Valor and his arch-villainess, Caliginous who used to be his girlfriend at one time.

She ends up destroying the entire world just trying to kill Captain Valor. Valor and Caliginous end up in an alternate universe and a parallel Earth where Valor's counterpart never became a superhero, and his girlfriend also never became the villainess Caliginous.

Caliginous is cold, calculating and just plain evil. She doesn't give a rat's ass that she destroyed her old world and killed billions of people.

Yeah the Defenders series has it's share of humor, but it never lets you forget that Umar is quite nasty and will kill in cold blood to achieve what she wants.

Vonn Hennigar
02-02-2007, 07:08 PM
Dormannu's characterization in that mini was way too over the top for me.

It actually hurt the character for future stories to anyone who read it which is a big no no in my books.

The Human Target
02-02-2007, 07:09 PM
Wasn't she in the first post Heroes Reborn Avengers arc?

Foolish Mortal
02-02-2007, 07:12 PM
Wasn't she in the first post Heroes Reborn Avengers arc?
No, Heroes Return arc.

Vonn Hennigar
02-02-2007, 07:12 PM
Wasn't she in the first post Heroes Reborn Avengers arc?

Yes, Yes She Was :) (http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showpost.php?p=2702621&postcount=10)

Lord Jermaine Retail
02-03-2007, 04:58 AM
Lord Jermaine Retail and Von Hennigar, you both crazy! :mrgreen: (I keed, I Keed!)


Morgan kicks ass imo.
(Marvel's Morgan, not to be confused with DC's Morgayne or DC's Circe, who shares Marvel's Morgan's penchant for green dresses and purple hair! :scared: )

Doesn't DC's Morgan wear that gold mask and battle The Demon from time to time? Or is that someone else?

Any character can become interesting in the right hands, but after all these years she is one of my least favorite concepts. Even in Busiek's debut Avengers she wasn't that good or particularly special.

jason hissong
02-03-2007, 06:12 AM
Doesn't DC's Morgan wear that gold mask and battle The Demon from time to time? Or is that someone else?

Any character can become interesting in the right hands, but after all these years she is one of my least favorite concepts. Even in Busiek's debut Avengers she wasn't that good or particularly special.

no, but that initial three issue ark was cool because of george perez and his imagination at crafting medieval interpretations of modern superhero uniforms.

Tom Burgos
02-03-2007, 08:14 AM
Doesn't DC's Morgan wear that gold mask and battle The Demon from time to time? Or is that someone else?

Any character can become interesting in the right hands, but after all these years she is one of my least favorite concepts. Even in Busiek's debut Avengers she wasn't that good or particularly special.


You STILL CRAZY!!! :mrgreen:

You are right about DC's version of Morgan; she also fought Wonder WOman during John Byrne's run.

Me, I love the concept of Morgan, and I am not even a huge fan of Arthurian legends, but something about Le Fay has always been very compelling to me, and Spider-Woman's origin (well, her first one) being so closely linked to Wundagore, ChThon and the celtic sorceress always enthralled me.

Lord Jermaine Retail
02-03-2007, 12:01 PM
You STILL CRAZY!!! :mrgreen:

You are right about DC's version of Morgan; she also fought Wonder WOman during John Byrne's run.

Me, I love the concept of Morgan, and I am not even a huge fan of Arthurian legends, but something about Le Fay has always been very compelling to me, and Spider-Woman's origin (well, her first one) being so closely linked to Wundagore, ChThon and the celtic sorceress always enthralled me.

Maybe due to her magicalness Morgan will be aware that she's "not part of the story" anymore and will be upset by that. Hey, it could happen. ;)

Tom Burgos
02-04-2007, 07:59 AM
Maybe due to her magicalness Morgan will be aware that she's "not part of the story" anymore and will be upset by that.

And thus Morgan will set in motion what will lead to Marvel's next big event, this time mostly centered around magic and the supernatural creatures and elemnts of the MU.
Hey, a big Marvel crossover ignited by and centered around a female villainess, now that would be something I could totally go for! :)

Cuckoo
02-04-2007, 01:33 PM
The 70's are back. Doc Strange, Spider-Woman, Power Man, Iron Fist, and countless others are being used as good now as they were used back then.

BENDIS!
02-04-2007, 01:39 PM
the clock is ticking :)

Nick_Ardill
02-04-2007, 02:40 PM
Never really dug the character that much. But LOVED the way Coipiel drew her in Avengers when he was doing it with (ick) Austen.

Tom Burgos
02-04-2007, 03:14 PM
the clock is ticking :)


Dude, I Love ya!!!!!! :mrgreen:

Tom Burgos
02-04-2007, 06:33 PM
Never really dug the character that much. But LOVED the way Coipiel drew her in Avengers when he was doing it with (ick) Austen.


I have tried to get a pic of that for the longest time, I have no idea how Morgan looked in that story, costume-wise...

Craig C
02-04-2007, 09:21 PM
the clock is ticking :)


So does this mean you might bring her in sometime?

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
02-04-2007, 09:26 PM
If this thread made money, I would be getting royalties.

Craig C
02-04-2007, 09:38 PM
If this thread made money, I would be getting royalties.


Hey you know I got nothing but love for you man. So you survived yesterday I take it?

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
02-04-2007, 09:44 PM
I have tried to get a pic of that for the longest time, I have no idea how Morgan looked in that story, costume-wise...

Here ya go Tom--

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/aso102/tmpC70.jpg

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
02-04-2007, 09:46 PM
Hey you know I got nothing but love for you man. So you survived yesterday I take it?

Yeah, surprisingly her mother found nothing about the department to bitch about.

Vonn Hennigar
02-04-2007, 09:49 PM
Here ya go Tom--

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/aso102/tmpC70.jpg

Bitch is ripping off Madame Hydra's look it seems.

Tom Burgos
02-04-2007, 09:50 PM
Here ya go Tom--

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/aso102/tmpC70.jpg


Thanks a lot, Johnny.
I knew I could count on a fellow Spider-Woman lovah!:)

Tom Burgos
02-04-2007, 09:52 PM
Bitch is ripping off Madame Hydra's look it seems.


Do you mean because of the greenish hue?
Morgan''s always worn a dark green gown thingie...even when Perez and Busiek relaunched Avengers, she wore a sort of armored look that still had green as the main tone.

Unless Madame Hydra actually wore an outfit just like the one in the pic?

Craig C
02-04-2007, 09:53 PM
Yeah, surprisingly her mother found nothing about the department to bitch about.


So it this good or bad?

Vonn Hennigar
02-04-2007, 09:56 PM
Do you mean because of the greenish hue?
Morgan''s always worn a dark green gown thingie...even when Perez and Busiek relaunched Avengers, she wore a sort of armored look that still had green as the main tone.

Unless Madame Hydra actually wore an outfit just like the one in the pic?

Probably doesn't help that Olivier Coipel also drew Madame Hydra over in Uncanny X-Men a year or two back. They look very similar. Or wait maybe it was Viper? Eh who can remember.

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
02-04-2007, 10:04 PM
Thanks a lot, Johnny.
I knew I could count on a fellow Spider-Woman lovah!:)

Oh, and the guy with his back on fire to the left of Morgan, was a new Black Knight that she had working for her.

Tom Burgos
02-04-2007, 10:07 PM
Probably doesn't help that Olivier Coipel also drew Madame Hydra over in Uncanny X-Men a year or two back. They look very similar. Or wait maybe it was Viper? Eh who can remember.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/madame_hydra_viper10.jpg

Except for the green, it doesn't strike me as very similar to the pic that Johnny posted, though they are both wearing some sort of ponytail thingie hairdo...
But I can see why people might find them sorta similar, especially with the same artist doing both pics...
Here's another pic of the same outfit, though this isn't Coipel's work...

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/madame_hydra_viper12.jpg

Ben Weldon
02-05-2007, 02:41 AM
I know nothing about the Marvel character Morgan le Fay, but if you cant make a good supervillin out of a evil witch bitch form the from the days of Camelot then it's time to hang up your keyboard.

Tom Burgos
02-05-2007, 06:23 AM
I know nothing about the Marvel character Morgan le Fay, but if you cant make a good supervillin out of a evil witch bitch form the from the days of Camelot then it's time to hang up your keyboard.


I agree.
Thank God that Marvel did make a great supervillain out of that concept.
And thus Spider-Woman got her own arch-nemesis.

JoeE
02-05-2007, 06:37 AM
Awful character. God, that first Busiek Avengers story sucked because of her.

Tom Burgos
02-05-2007, 06:39 AM
Awful character. God, that first Busiek Avengers story sucked because of her.

"Now you'll die, insect!"
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/2/2a/Morgan_lf.jpg
:mrgreen:

Freeway
02-05-2007, 07:13 AM
Still think she was a really weak choice to kick off Avengers Volume 3 by Kurt Busiek and George Perez.

They should have gone with Loki or Kang imo.

C'mon...Knights of the Roundtable Avengers WAS pretty badass.

ArachneSF
02-05-2007, 12:09 PM
I actually liked the mystical connections SW has always had with Modred the Mystic, Magnus, and Morgan. It would be obvious for DS and SW to make that connection again given the fact the DS did save SWs life.

What do you guys think about SW becoming a disciple of Dr. Strange and study the mystic arts. Just think of the possibilties. A Marvel Team-Up Title: The Mystical Journeys of the Spider-Woman and Dr. Strange. SW can start conjuring mystal webbing.

Also SW can get in touch with the mystical Spider-Woman mythology from the native americans.

"In the beginning, there was the dark purple light at the dawn of being. Spider Woman spun a line to form the east, west, north, and south. Breath entered man at the time of the yellow light. At the time of the red light, man proudly faced his creator.

"In the beginning, there was the dark purple light at the dawn of being. Spider Woman spun a line to form the east, west, north, and south. Breath entered man at the time of the yellow light. At the time of the red light, man proudly faced his creator.

Spider Woman used the clay of the earth, red, yellow, white, and black, to create people. To each she attached a thread of her web which came from the doorway at the top of her head. This thread was the gift of creative wisdom. Three times she sent a great flood to destroy those who had forgotten the gift of her thread. Those who remembered floated to the new world and climbed to safety through the Sipapu Pole the womb of Mother Earth."
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/8116/story.html

Foolish Mortal
02-05-2007, 12:12 PM
I actually liked the mystical connections SW has always had with Modred the Mystic, Magnus, and Morgan. It would be obvious for DS and SW to make that connection again given the fact the DS did save SWs life.

What do you guys think about SW becoming a disciple of Dr. Strange and study the mystic arts. Just think of the possibilties. A Marvel Team-Up Title: The Mystical Journeys of the Spider-Woman and Dr. Strange. SW can start conjuring mystal webbing.

Also SW can get in touch with the mystical Spider-Woman mythology from the native americans.

"In the beginning, there was the dark purple light at the dawn of being. Spider Woman spun a line to form the east, west, north, and south. Breath entered man at the time of the yellow light. At the time of the red light, man proudly faced his creator.

"In the beginning, there was the dark purple light at the dawn of being. Spider Woman spun a line to form the east, west, north, and south. Breath entered man at the time of the yellow light. At the time of the red light, man proudly faced his creator.

Spider Woman used the clay of the earth, red, yellow, white, and black, to create people. To each she attached a thread of her web which came from the doorway at the top of her head. This thread was the gift of creative wisdom. Three times she sent a great flood to destroy those who had forgotten the gift of her thread. Those who remembered floated to the new world and climbed to safety through the Sipapu Pole the womb of Mother Earth."
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/8116/story.html
Welcome to the board!! :D

Dreg
02-05-2007, 12:32 PM
Morgan LeFay was every bit as cool as the Great Magini from the Spider-Woman Animated Series. Classicky!

Tom Burgos
02-05-2007, 04:01 PM
I actually liked the mystical connections SW has always had with Modred the Mystic, Magnus, and Morgan. It would be obvious for DS and SW to make that connection again given the fact the DS did save SWs life.



I really, truly hope Bendis does acknowledge (in either New Avengers or Spider-Woman) that Wundagore Mountain, the place where Jessica was conceived, born and raised was the Earthly prison of the elemental demon Ch'Thon, and according to Morgan, Jessica's very being was laced (by Ch'Thon) with eldritch forces that allegedly made her a very valuable commodity for the demon.

It was never made clear why Morgan was so insistent on Jessica yielding to her (she never wanted to kill Spider-Woman, she always wanted to make her her willing slave), but it is obvious that it had something to do with the mystical energies that Ch'Thon had "injected" on Jessica.
Maybe with Jessica willingly becoming Morgan's pawn, the sorceress would somehow have access to Ch'thon's magic or something?
Maybe there's something even bigger than Jessica that we still don't know, something that if unleashed or released could become a great threat, and that's what Morgan has been wanting to control for the longest time?

The thing is that now that Strange will be an Avenger, this never-fully-developed sub-plot could really come to fruition...and would make Jessica come full circle in terms to her unholy connection to Ch'Thon.

And btw, the slight supernatural tinge that the Spider-Woman book used to have was one of the things that made me fall in love with her.
Here was a superheroine that felt at home in traditional superhero-versus-villain stories, espionage/international intrigue plots and bizarre, supernatural scenarios too.
I loved that her villains ranged from gadget-heavy, technologically grounded foes like Hammer And Anvil & The Enforcer, to non-powered international terrorists like Viper to mystical beings like Morgan, to eerie, bizarre foes like The Brothers Grim and Nekra.

c.rob
02-05-2007, 04:38 PM
so spider-man was retconed to match spider-woman?

Tom Burgos
02-05-2007, 04:53 PM
so spider-man was retconed to match spider-woman?

Funny, that's what I thought when I first heard about the whole Spider-Totem thing.
I always thought that Jessica, with her history with Ch'thon, Wundagore and Morgan, was a more fitting candidate to the whole affair than Peter, but of course,I understand that Marvel was not going to bother using that quite ambitious storyline in a mostly forgotten C-lister "Spider-Man rip-off", when they could've used it on their premiere, most bankable character, even if the nature of Jessica's origin was more befitting of that particular devlopment...

Tom Burgos
08-10-2007, 07:29 AM
Was Mark Bagley the guy announced to draw the Morgan Le fay issues of Mighty Avengers?

I could swear I heard he was, but I'm not even sure...

Shawn_Kehoe
08-10-2007, 07:56 AM
Was Mark Bagley the guy announced to draw the Morgan Le fay issues of Mighty Avengers?

I could swear I heard he was, but I'm not even sure...

Bagley is doing a symbiote arc. I haven't heard further plans.

Dermie
08-10-2007, 08:10 AM
Bagley is doing a symbiote arc. I haven't heard further plans.

My understanding is that the symbiote arc includes the Doom and Morgan story...