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Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 04:30 AM
Apparantley the mind whammy the Haitian put on Claire's frend Zach did more than make him forget about their friendship. It turned him straight.

From afterelton.com (http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/12/heroes.html)


Heroes lovers, here is a mid-season surprise for you: Zach is not gay.

An NBC publicist told AfterElton in a phone conversation that Zach "is not gay", that it was something that was "for sure" and "in all certainty." AfterElton contacted NBC for confirmation after being told by Thomas Dekker's management (Dekker plays Zach), the character of Zach is absolutely straight.

For those that have followed the show closely and taken even a cursory look at NBC's marketing efforts around the show (which have repeatedly insinuated, implied and led most viewers to believe that the character is gay), this is interesting—and troubling—news.

What does it mean when a network's website portrays a character as gay, and yet the publicity department suddenly claims that he isn't? Or when the series creator and writer are quoted in an interview conducted before the show premieres that the character is, indeed, supposed to be gay? [Ed. Note: See creator Tim Kring's response to the controversy on the AfterElton.com blog.] That's not even factoring in all the loaded dialogue and the character's gay-friendly Myspace page (how many straight teens love Priscilla: Queen of the Desert, Velvet Goldmine, and Hedwig and the Angry Inch?). Is it possible for a character's very sexuality to be mis-marketed? Or is there a different, more disturbing situation occurring?

While hats are off to Dekker for landing the plum lead role in the upcoming Terminator spin-off series, The Sarah Connor Chronicles (as announced on Thursday), it does make one wonder exactly where the pressure to bury the character's gayness might have come from.

Two scenarios seem the mostly likely: for unknown reasons, NBC suddenly shied away from the idea of a gay character. Or Dekker's management wanted Zach to be straight. (Dekker's management declined to comment on the topic.)

Considering that Dekker has notably played gay on television before – in a hilarious turn as an obsessed gay teen fan on the short-lived 90210 satire Grosse Point – why should there be any concern on his part with playing gay? Indeed, so many actors have now done so it seems hard to believe it should be an issue for any actor. It's beyond disheartening to think that in 2006, a peripheral character's sexuality could be such a volatile matter for studios, actors, and management – particularly when it's obviously not an issue for the show's fans.

As for NBC, the network wasn't able to explain exactly how Zach got “gayed” in the promotional materials, but they suggest that it's all some kind of miscommunication. However, in the entertainment industry, where shows, careers, and breakout phenomena are based on a myriad of interlocking, carefully-thought out parts, “miscommunication” can mean anything from a genuine “mistake” to “change of mind.”

A few things are clear, and can be backed up by evidence from interviews with the show's creators and in the show's official publicity materials: Zach was conceived as a gay character, he was developed as a gay character, and as of the November 20th “Homecoming” episode, he was a gay character. And yet a decision was made by someone – be it studio execs, talent management, or otherwise – to “straighten him out”. To get a better idea of how the character of Zach – or perhaps more importantly, public perception of Zach – has changed over the last few months, let's pull a Hiro Nakamura and jump back in time…

Zach appears in the series' very first episode as the newfound best friend and only confidante of Claire Bennett (Hayden Panettiere), a Texas cheerleader who has recently discovered that she has the ability to regenerate instantly. What by all rights should be a peripheral, two-dimensional role (each of the other “heroes” has their own rather unrealized sidekicks) manages to be more than that thanks in no small part to Dekker.

Zach is an awkward but surprisingly self-assured kid whose sensitivity makes his sexuality a subject for debate with the other kids at school. In the first episode of Heroes, there's a crack about Zach getting an erection in the locker room – typical high-school gay-baiting. Zach doesn't operate within the school hierarchy – he's a loser who hangs out with a pretty cheerleader, and for that he's labeled an outsider.

Gay viewers are used to seeing unfortunate, misunderstood straight boys getting gay-baited because they don't play sports and having to suffer the apparent indignity of being considered homosexual. This is nothing new; given it is 2006, it's actually a bit tired. But Heroes opted to go in a decidedly different direction with Zach. A few episodes later, when Claire is debating what she should do about her horrible secret, Zach asks her if she is planning on “coming out” to her parents – as a superhuman. Interesting wording for a character whose sexuality is under apparently very public scrutiny.

This hardly serves as proof Zach is gay. After all, superhero comics (upon which Heroes is modeled) have long made the parallel between “otherness” and homosexuality. That's one of the reasons that the form is so attractive to gay youths

But in the November 20th episode of Heroes (titled “Homecoming”) Claire and Zach are walking through school when a rival cheerleader says something about Claire taking the “gay-boy” to the Homecoming dance, and that maybe he should be the one wearing the tiara. Claire punches the girl in the face, knocking her out cold.

Later in the episode, Zach climbs into Claire's window to encourage her to go to the Homecoming dance, despite being grounded. When she asks if he wants to be her date, he says he can't, for “millions of reasons”. He then launches into a heart-to-heart that is both encouraging to gay teens and incredibly frustrating in its refusal to commit.

Claire asks if he can't be her date because of what the other cheerleader said, and Zach says that he doesn't care what she said, that he knows who he is and is proud of it. He's more worried about Claire, who can't come to terms with her own “otherness”. He says, “You've got to embrace your inner freak … the only thing you'll regret is denying who you really are.”

Many viewers took that exchange as Zach's coming out.

Technically, he never says “I'm gay”, but even NBC's website was fooled by all the subtext – its official recap of the “Homecoming” episode states that Zach “stammers with his reply, admitting that he's gay”. At least it did. NBC recently edited those words out of the transcript. If the network's own marketing efforts can't get the facts straight, it's not outlandish to think that millions of viewers may have been led to the same apparently erroneous conclusion.

Further evidence that Zach is gay can be found on Zach's Myspace page, which is presumably maintained by NBC. Zach's Myspace handle is “Zachtothefuture,” and his page lists his Orientation as “Not Sure”, his favorite movies as Rocky Horror, Priscilla Queen of the Desert, Hedwig and the Angry Inch, Velvet Goldmine, Withnail and I. His blog also include the comments “I'm still not interested in Claire, trust me”.

Zach's Myspace page also features a large number of gay and gay-friendly peers that Zach has in his network – many of whom appear to be actual Myspace users who weigh in with supportive comments after the episodes.

Comments like “Just know that you are special, too!”, “There are rumors going around that you're gay. That's so cool! I'm all for that!”, and “It's 2006 – people don't care about this kinda stuff anymore” are all over the place. It's interesting to note that there's not one derogatory or potentially gay-bashing comment on the site – although of course the comments could be monitored by the show's publicity department.

It is significant that NBC publicists have decided to tickle viewers gaydar via the internet. The use of Myspace, an immensely popular site for teenagers, for a teen character's personal blog is a pointed targeting of young viewers. Teens are more likely than anyone to check out Zach's blog and see both his dealing with his sexuality and the support that he's found through his online buddies. And for a gay teen going through a similar process, that could be enormously validating.

But the network-sponsored Myspace page isn't where the discussion ends. Message boards have been discussing Zach's sexuality and his relationship with Claire for months.

All of this begs a question: if the character was never gay in the first place, where did all these insinuations, hints, and outright declarations of his gayness come from? In interviews that took place prior to the series' premiere, creator Tim Kring and openly gay writer Bryan Fuller explicitly stated that Zach's character was intended to be gay (a fact that would be revealed later in the season) but that NBC network executives seemed resistant to the idea.

Kring noted in an interview with Out Magazine by Matthew Breen that, “it's always been a battle with networks on that sort of thing. There's a subversiveness that you're forced to think about these things with. You try to come in through a side door.” In this case, it looks as though even the side door has been barred – an interesting thing to happen on the network that did so well with Will & Grace just a few years back.

It's nothing new for a television show to lead viewers along with misdirection and red herrings in order to keep them tuning in. But using a character's potential sexuality – particularly a teen character – flirts with exploitation. Is it advisable to engage the vested interests of young gay people at an extremely volatile and confusing time of their lives and then reveal that they had been identifying with someone who wasn't gay after all, but merely a marketing gimmick?

Likewise, for a sprawling genre show not to feature a gay character is no big deal – in fact, it's the norm. Lack of representation isn't the issue here (or, at least, not the specific issue).

What's troubling is the fact that a character apparently conceived as gay (as explicitly stated by the creator and writer, although they noted that they hadn't discussed the idea with the actor playing Zach at the time), written as gay (his repeatedly being called gay and never denying it, as well as his pointed lack of interest in Claire, are among many less-than-subtle suggestions), and promoted as gay (both on NBC's website and the fake Myspace page for the character) has seemingly and suddenly been forced back into the closet.

These contradictions lead one to wonder how exactly the character of Zach went from proud gay teen to suddenly straight. Given Dekker's likely exit from the show for his new gig (and considering what happened to him in the mid-season finale), Zach might soon be a moot point anyway, gay or straight. Watching a character's sexuality become the casualty of a marketing mistake is unfortunate, but the idea that Zach's de-gaying might have been the result of a calculated decision is more than simply disappointing, particularly for a character that gay teens could so easily identify with.

Whatever the reason—NBC's anxiety over portraying an out gay teen or fear about the impact of the role on Dekker's future—the manner in which the sexuality of Zach's character has been handled both on the show and in the publicity materials is insensitive at best, exploitative at worst. Viewers are used to losing beloved characters to the villains on these shows – it's part of their drama.

But it's a shame that helping a gay teen character hold on to his sexuality was apparently one feat that these Heroes couldn't manage.

J. Wilson
01-22-2007, 04:33 AM
Well look at this way, now he can hook up with Claire. And isn't that every guy's dream in high school: to hook up with the hot blonde cheerleader.

Bill Nolan
01-22-2007, 04:47 AM
I was hoping he was gone from the show forever anyway. He was basically a white version of the dude on My So-Called Life, who really thought he was straight?

- B

JoeE
01-22-2007, 04:48 AM
I liked the character but I don't really see why he should come back after the mindwipe.

wholaughslast
01-22-2007, 04:48 AM
ok, that was useless information i could care less about.

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 04:59 AM
Well look at this way, now he can hook up with Claire. And isn't that every guy's dream in high school: to hook up with the hot blonde cheerleader.



actually, I wanted to sleep with Chad, the stocky, brunette quarterback in my high school.

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 05:00 AM
I was hoping he was gone from the show forever anyway. He was basically a white version of the dude on My So-Called Life, who really thought he was straight?

- B

He got a part on The Sarah Connor Chronicles and I think the mind whammy was to be the end of the character in the show (the tragedy of Claire finding one true friend only to lose him and all). Ijust think it's bad form for a character who was written and "marketed" as gay to be straightened-out because of their agent getting cold feet.

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 05:05 AM
ok, that was useless information i could care less about.

Wow, I wish I could be as apathetic as you but I just dont have the energy. It's a big commitment.

wholaughslast
01-22-2007, 05:10 AM
Wow, I wish I could be as apathetic as you but I just dont have the energy. It's a big commitment.

well seriously, was there a point in them releasing an AP article about how this character IS NOT GAY. We'll find out eventually in the show. I wasnt mocking your post at all bro, just the article itself.

Keith P.
01-22-2007, 05:11 AM
Well look at this way, now he can hook up with Claire. And isn't that every guy's dream in high school: to hook up with the hot blonde cheerleader.

Not mine.

I was too busy lusting after Mr. Judd, our beefy sociall studies teacher and the way his ass looked rock hard in his khakis.

Bill?
01-22-2007, 05:12 AM
thats weird. i haven't even considered that he was supposed to be gay. i thought he was just the geeky kid everyone called a homo. i even kinda of thought he was supposed to be a love interest for claire. weird.

WinterRose
01-22-2007, 05:23 AM
Wow. I'm stunned at how much I don't care. Maybe it was the gay-baiting I got in school. (My best pal was, and people just assumed.) Maybe it was being exposed to the sheer number of gay folk that projected their sexuality onto me. ("You're gay. You just don't know it. Everyone is really. And I'm gonna help you realize it!")

Meh... I had no idea whether Zach was gay or not. But seeing as he was an entirely minor character in the show, who has now had any memory extracted worth having that made him an interesting character to begin with? I wouldn't really be upset if I never saw him again. I'm still too sad about losing Eden to give much of a crap about Zach.

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 05:28 AM
thats weird. i haven't even considered that he was supposed to be gay. i thought he was just the geeky kid everyone called a homo. i even kinda of thought he was supposed to be a love interest for claire. weird.

Well to be fare, for the first 10 episodes most of the big clues come from stuff like the website and his myspace page. Although that speech he gives in 11 is as close as it can get without having a Northstar moment. According to show creator Tim Kring, Zach was allways ment to be gay.

james michael
01-22-2007, 05:32 AM
thats weird. i haven't even considered that he was supposed to be gay. i thought he was just the geeky kid everyone called a homo. i even kinda of thought he was supposed to be a love interest for claire. weird.

youre not alone :?

artimoff
01-22-2007, 05:38 AM
thats weird. i haven't even considered that he was supposed to be gay. i thought he was just the geeky kid everyone called a homo. i even kinda of thought he was supposed to be a love interest for claire. weird.

Same here.

Jonny Z
01-22-2007, 05:41 AM
huh. that's lame. i definately could tell he was supposed to be gay throughout. this just hurts my trust in the show...

Yannick_B
01-22-2007, 05:58 AM
thats weird. i haven't even considered that he was supposed to be gay. i thought he was just the geeky kid everyone called a homo. i even kinda of thought he was supposed to be a love interest for claire. weird.

Same here.

bachman
01-22-2007, 05:59 AM
Wow. I'm stunned at how much I don't care. .

You apparently "don't care" so much that you posted the largest response so far on the topic, 2 paragraphs.

Jonny Z
01-22-2007, 06:06 AM
they pretty much dropped every hint and clue that he was gay short of having him suck another man's cock on the show.

Simps
01-22-2007, 06:10 AM
they pretty much dropped every hint and clue that he was gay short of having him suck another man's cock on the show.
One can hope for the deleted scenes...

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 06:20 AM
One can hope for the deleted scenes...

God damn, you beet me to it! ;)

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 06:36 AM
I didn't think he was gay in the first place. I thought it was just an insult the other stupid cheerleader called him.

c. page
01-22-2007, 06:37 AM
the homecoming episode was the one that had me thinking he was gay more than anything else, but then, having had his memory wiped, i pretty well figured his arc was over. there really isn't much of a point of him being on the show now, is there?

SteveZegers
01-22-2007, 06:39 AM
I assumed he was because he showed no interest in the girl. It wasn't really set in stone, but it seemed like that was where it was going.

ds9
01-22-2007, 06:45 AM
I dont think he was ever suppose to be gay in the first place.

james michael
01-22-2007, 06:46 AM
I didn't want him to be gay in the first place.

why?

Taki Soma
01-22-2007, 06:47 AM
which one's zach?

SteveZegers
01-22-2007, 06:47 AM
which one's zach?

Claire's friend. The guy that videotaped her.

dEnny!
01-22-2007, 06:48 AM
actually, I wanted to sleep with Chad, the stocky, brunette quarterback in my high school.

Our QB's name was Crad...just saying.

james michael
01-22-2007, 06:48 AM
Claire's friend. The guy that videotaped her.

which, yknow, should be proof positive of his heteroness...

dEnny!
01-22-2007, 06:49 AM
which one's zach?

EXACTLY!

ds9
01-22-2007, 06:49 AM
why?i didnt type that.

Taki Soma
01-22-2007, 06:50 AM
Claire's friend. The guy that videotaped her.

oh. I didn't know he was a pivotal character in Heroes.

c. page
01-22-2007, 06:53 AM
oh. I didn't know he was a pivotal character in Heroes.

wouldn't say he was pivotal, but an interesting tertiary character.

Jonny Z
01-22-2007, 06:56 AM
I dont think he was ever suppose to be gay in the first place.

did you read the article? the whole point of the article this thread is about is that he was supposed to be gay in the first place. read the articles before you comment, man.


For those that have followed the show closely and taken even a cursory look at NBC's marketing efforts around the show (which have repeatedly insinuated, implied and led most viewers to believe that the character is gay), this is interesting—and troubling—news.

What does it mean when a network's website portrays a character as gay, and yet the publicity department suddenly claims that he isn't? Or when the series creator and writer are quoted in an interview conducted before the show premieres that the character is, indeed, supposed to be gay? [Ed. Note: See creator Tim Kring's response to the controversy on the AfterElton.com blog.] That's not even factoring in all the loaded dialogue and the character's gay-friendly Myspace page (how many straight teens love Priscilla: Queen of the Desert, Velvet Goldmine, and Hedwig and the Angry Inch?). Is it possible for a character's very sexuality to be mis-marketed? Or is there a different, more disturbing situation occurring?

ds9
01-22-2007, 07:00 AM
I still dont see the big deal

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 07:23 AM
Yeah. i did think he was SUPPOSED to be gay either.

Just cause some bitchy cheerleader starts a rumor you're gay doesn't mean you're fucking gay.

And he didn't show interest in Claire because she never showed interest in him.

Foolish Mortal
01-22-2007, 07:33 AM
Well to be fare, for the first 10 episodes most of the big clues come from stuff like the website and his myspace page. Although that speech he gives in 11 is as close as it can get without having a Northstar moment. According to show creator Tim Kring, Zach was allways ment to be gay.
Yeah, but this sounds like something the actor and his agent wanted. But the article makes it sound like the producers or NBC made the writers change it.

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 07:36 AM
Yeah. i did think he was SUPPOSED to be gay either.

Just cause some bitchy cheerleader starts a rumor you're gay doesn't mean you're fucking gay.

And he didn't show interest in Claire because she never showed interest in him.

I would think the guy who created the series, and the (openly gay) guy who wrote it probably know more about that than any of us do, and if they say the character was/is supposed to be gay, I'd be more willing to believe them than anyone on the internet not associated with the show who says the character isn't supposed to be.

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 07:39 AM
I would think the guy who created the series, and the (openly gay) guy who wrote it probably know more about that than any of us do, and if they say the character was/is supposed to be gay, I'd be more willing to believe them than anyone on the internet not associated with the show who says the character isn't supposed to be.

Yeah, and for those of us who just watch the damned show and don't care to read much else about it, we don't know that shit. This is coming from someone who strictly watched the show. Just because I didn't think he was supposed to be gay, doens't mean he wasn't. Just saying, from my standpoint, that's what i saw.

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 07:44 AM
Yeah, and for those of us who just watch the damned show and don't care to read much else about it, we don't know that shit.


but it was in the first post of this thread.....

you know... in the article.......

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 07:45 AM
but it was in the first post of this thread.....

you know... in the article.......

And the key word was "THINK". I didn't THINK he was supposed to be gay. As in before the article was read.

Foolish Mortal
01-22-2007, 07:46 AM
but it was in the first post of this thread.....

you know... in the article.......


And the key word was "THINK". I didn't THINK he was supposed to be gay. As in before the article was read.
Get a room! :mad:

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 07:47 AM
Get a room! :mad:

*drags Foolish Mortal off to the backroom*

Foolish Mortal
01-22-2007, 07:53 AM
*drags Foolish Mortal off to the backroom*
*...Thinks...this was unexpected...*

Jerome Gibbons
01-22-2007, 07:55 AM
Yay! Score one for God's chosen team! :D























It's a joke. Please don't maim me, gays. :surrend:

james michael
01-22-2007, 08:01 AM
It's a joke. Please don't maim me, gays. :surrend:

we dont maim, we accessorize...

Jerome Gibbons
01-22-2007, 08:16 AM
we dont maim, we accessorize...

I think Todd Kearns logged into James' account by mistake.

james michael
01-22-2007, 08:20 AM
I think Todd Kearns logged into James' account by mistake.

:rofl:

by "we", i meant them :Oops:

i dont even wear a watch :?

Jerome Gibbons
01-22-2007, 08:28 AM
:rofl:

by "we", i meant them :Oops:

i dont even wear a watch :?

But then, how do you know when it's time for your manicure?

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 08:30 AM
Yeah, but this sounds like something the actor and his agent wanted. But the article makes it sound like the producers or NBC made the writers change it.

That was just the first article before more info was known. There's been other stuff like the agent instigating it* and Tim Kring's response to the whole thing, but thats mostly on the blog which is down at the moment. I'll do some linkage if it comes back anytime soon. :)







*Which is wird in itself because the actor has played gay before, arguably a gayer character too. Maybe it has something to do with his role in the Sara Conner thing?

TheTravis!
01-22-2007, 08:31 AM
But then, how do you know when it's time for your manicure?

The noise the other dude makes when James Michael fists him up the ass. It's less a "there's a fist up my ass" noise and more of a "those nails need to be shaped" noise.

WinterRose
01-22-2007, 10:24 AM
Well this thread certainly became entertaining.

Wastrel
01-22-2007, 11:16 AM
but it was in the first post of this thread.....

you know... in the article.......

im not seeing where. i do see that writer thinks that was what they were going for, but im not seeing anything definite from the creators standpoint. it says that he was originally concieved that way, but its not in any way unlikely that they changed their minds, especially considering it says they didnt happen to mention that to the actor.

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 11:38 AM
im not seeing where. i do see that writer thinks that was what they were going for, but im not seeing anything definite from the creators standpoint. it says that he was originally concieved that way, but its not in any way unlikely that they changed their minds, especially considering it says they didnt happen to mention that to the actor.

Ok. For the third time. According to show creator Tim Kring, Zach was allways ment to be gay.

Wastrel
01-22-2007, 11:39 AM
Ok. For the third time. According to show creator Tim Kring, Zach was allways ment to be gay.

link?

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 11:47 AM
link?

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=100683

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 11:47 AM
link?

My source is SFX magazine. Go ask them.

Jonny Z
01-22-2007, 11:48 AM
Ok. For the third time. According to show creator Tim Kring, Zach was allways ment to be gay.

I feel like people have us on ignore :( we've only reiterated the comments made in the article 50 times each.

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 11:52 AM
And the only point we're trying to make is prior to this article, no one had any idea what was "intended". And I don't even know who the creator is, let anole anything he's said. I usually try to just enjoy the shows I watch. My boyfriend reads all the journals and wikipedia crap, and if there's something interesting or important, he tells me. Other than that, if it's not in the show, I dont know it. And as I started before, there was no definate way of knowing from the show. Some bitchy cheerleader started a rumor, and Claire was a total bitch to him.

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 11:53 AM
In interviews that took place prior to the series' premiere, creator Tim Kring and openly gay writer Bryan Fuller explicitly stated that Zach's character was intended to be gay (a fact that would be revealed later in the season) but that NBC network executives seemed resistant to the idea.


Technically, he never says “I'm gay”, but even NBC's website was fooled by all the subtext – its official recap of the “Homecoming” episode states that Zach “stammers with his reply, admitting that he's gay”. At least it did. NBC recently edited those words out of the transcript. If the network's own marketing efforts can't get the facts straight, it's not outlandish to think that millions of viewers may have been led to the same apparently erroneous conclusion.

:cool:

Wastrel
01-22-2007, 11:54 AM
http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=100683

still not seeing the creators saying the character is gay.

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 11:55 AM
And the only point we're trying to make is prior to this article, no one had any idea what was "intended". And I don't even know who the creator is, let anole anything he's said. I usually try to just enjoy the shows I watch. My boyfriend reads all the journals and wikipedia crap, and if there's something interesting or important, he tells me. Other than that, if it's not in the show, I dont know it. And as I started before, there was no definate way of knowing from the show. Some bitchy cheerleader started a rumor, and Claire was a total bitch to him.


See, I thought he was gay from day one.

He reminded me of me as a teen in shcool: quiet, quirky, hanging out with the 'hot' girl, but not showing any real interest in her.

I was like "oh, the guy with the camera is the gay guy".

my lesbian room mate agreed.

I guess its all how you look at it, i guess.

Wastrel
01-22-2007, 11:56 AM
:cool:
there are a million reasons the character could have been changed since it was first concieved, and whoever types that up for the website is not one of the creators and could easily have been mistaken.

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 11:57 AM
still not seeing the creators saying the character is gay.

do you see where it says the creator of the show and the writer intended him to be gay and have it be a trait revealed later in the season.....?


yes, it doesn't say "He is difinatively gay", but what it does say is that he was definately supposed to be.

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 11:57 AM
I guess its all how you look at it, i guess.

I think if the cheerleader hadn't started the rumor, it would have clicked differently. I just viewed it as a bitch being a bitch. And there are lots of akward boys in shows that aren't gay. Maybe I watched too much Nickelodeon as a kid.

Jonny Z
01-22-2007, 11:58 AM
still not seeing the creators saying the character is gay.

no offense dude, but are you blind?

this is from the first few paragraphs of the article that this thread is about-


For those that have followed the show closely and taken even a cursory look at NBC's marketing efforts around the show (which have repeatedly insinuated, implied and led most viewers to believe that the character is gay), this is interesting—and troubling—news.

What does it mean when a network's website portrays a character as gay, and yet the publicity department suddenly claims that he isn't? Or when the series creator and writer are quoted in an interview conducted before the show premieres that the character is, indeed, supposed to be gay? [Ed. Note: See creator Tim Kring's response to the controversy on the AfterElton.com blog.] That's not even factoring in all the loaded dialogue and the character's gay-friendly Myspace page (how many straight teens love Priscilla: Queen of the Desert, Velvet Goldmine, and Hedwig and the Angry Inch?). Is it possible for a character's very sexuality to be mis-marketed? Or is there a different, more disturbing situation occurring?

Wastrel
01-22-2007, 11:59 AM
do you see where it says the creator of the show and the writer intended him to be gay and have it be a trait revealed later in the season.....?


yes, it doesn't say "He is difinatively gay", but what it does say is that he was definately supposed to be.

i originally concieved a character im working on as white, changed him to a black guy. thats part of the creative process.

Jonny Z
01-22-2007, 11:59 AM
See, I thought he was gay from day one.

He reminded me of me as a teen in shcool: quiet, quirky, hanging out with the 'hot' girl, but not showing any real interest in her.

I was like "oh, the guy with the camera is the gay guy".

my lesbian room mate agreed.

I guess its all how you look at it, i guess.

yeah, from the first episode, i pegged him as gay. i never thought it was a big deal. just the way the actor played it and the lines he was given lead me to that conclusion. then of course, the whole homecoming bit confirms it for even those that are most resistant to the idea.

Wastrel
01-22-2007, 12:00 PM
no offense dude, but are you blind?

this is from the first few paragraphs of the article that this thread is about-

i think you guys are the ones having a hard time seeing through all that righteous indignation. before the premier? their intent for the character could easily have been changed.

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 12:01 PM
another article:

http://www.out.com/detail.asp?page=2&id=19106


While Battlestar may be late to the game in this respect (assuming the show’s creators do enter the game at all), others have already begun to take up the mantle of depicting characters more reflective of their queer audiences. NBC’s upcoming fall drama Heroes, created by Crossing Jordan exec producer Tim Kring, features a diverse international cast and depicts the fallout in ordinary people’s lives when, due to an evolutionary leap, they discover they have extraordinary unexplained abilities. Heroes will feature a gay character, according to Kring and Fuller, who is now writing for the show. In the pilot a popular high school cheerleader with superhuman invulnerability selects a loner from her class to divulge her secret to—though he’s not revealed as gay in that episode. Kring admits, “I’m feeling a little odd about it, because I literally haven’t even discussed it with the actor yet.”

On the network that brought us Will & Grace, there’s still resistance even to peripheral queer characters. Fuller says, “There was a moment on the set where [Kring] was with an NBC executive, who shall remain nameless, and the exec said, ‘Hmm, you need to watch [the cheerleader’s friend] because that character could be interpreted as gay.’ And Tim said, ‘Why do we need to watch that?’ ”

Jonny Z
01-22-2007, 12:05 PM
i think you guys are the ones having a hard time seeing through all that righteous indignation. before the premier? their intent for the character could easily have been changed.

yeah but did you watch the show? i mean, he doesn't walk around saying "hey dude- i'm gonna fuck you in the butt. that cool, bro?" but if you saw the homecoming episode, he comes out to claire without actually saying the words "i'm gay." it's a parallel to claire hiding her superpowers. one is gay and is keeping it secret, the other is a superhero and is keeping it secret, and they both can confide in eachother. now they're making him a character with nothing secret to hide.

i get what you're saying. you think the creators intended him to be gay prior to the premiere, but that all changed after casting and before the pilot was shot. but that's not the case. up until the homecoming episode, maybe even the break, it's quite clear to any viewer in the know that he was gay and that these changes are as a result of recent events in the last week that have transpired.

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 12:07 PM
They are probably making him straight so that he hooks up with Claire which is in someway important to the plot.

Though I want to see her with Peter >>;;

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 12:08 PM
oh, and Wastrel, I DO understand what you are saying.

I'm not a total tool.

(at least not all the time) ;)

Shwicaz
01-22-2007, 12:08 PM
maybe that's part of his power---he can 'cure' homosexuality, starting with himself.

:lol:

Matt O'Keefe
01-22-2007, 12:10 PM
Well that's gay (pun intended)

Jonny Z
01-22-2007, 12:11 PM
i can't find the whole script for that episode, but here's a little of zach coming out to claire: it's no smoking gun, but it's definately a stretched out slingshot

Zach: I know who I am. I like who I am. I like who you are. I just, I just wish that you liked who you are.
Claire: I’m finally realizing who my friends really are. That maybe being different isn’t the end of the world. It’s just who I am.

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 12:12 PM
i think you guys are the ones having a hard time seeing through all that righteous indignation. before the premier? their intent for the character could easily have been changed.

So the character is concieved as being gay. Then just for funnsies they decide to make him straight while leving all the subtext intact and not bothering to tell the good people in marketing. Then Dekker’s manager threatened to pull her client from the show unless the story was changed. A change that you think had already happened so I guess she was just doing that for shits and giggles.







Makes sense to me. :surrend:

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 12:13 PM
Zach: I know who I am. I like who I am. I like who you are. I just, I just wish that you liked who you are.


That's not really saying you are gay. That could be admitting he was an akward "freak".

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 12:17 PM
That's not really saying you are gay. That could be admitting he was an akward "freak".

Yeah but it was in response to Claire saying something along the lines of "is it because suchandsuch called you gay"

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 12:17 PM
To further state and clarify...

He could just be saying he'd never be one of the cool kids.

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 12:18 PM
Yeah but it was in response to Claire saying something along the lines of "is it because suchandsuch called you gay"

But still. Saying "I know who I am" could be saying he knows he's not gay and doesn't care what others say.


Could still go both ways.

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 12:19 PM
To further state and clarify...

He could just be saying he'd never be one of the cool kids.

He could. But that with all the other stuff suggests he wasnt.

Wastrel
01-22-2007, 12:20 PM
Then Dekker’s manager threatened to pull her client from the show unless the story was changed. A change that you think had already happened so I guess she was just doing that for shits and giggles.
i actully feel dumb about this one, but where is this referenced? im looking through the pages and cant find it.

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 12:21 PM
He could. But that with all the other stuff suggests he wasnt.

It does NOW.

But if I had never read that, he would still be straight, and since he character changed, I wouldn't have been the wiser. I'm just saying, not all of us read everything on the show. The fact we didn't know he was gay is still understandable.

xyzzy
01-22-2007, 12:22 PM
I wouldn't say that the show had established him as definitely gay, but it was certainly strongly hinted at. Of course, it could have been a long running mislead, but anybody who didn't pick up on that just wasn't paying any attention.

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 12:23 PM
I wouldn't say that the show had established him as definitely gay, but it was certainly strongly hinted at. Anybody who didn't pick up on that just wasn't paying any attention.

Or we were too captivated by the story to pay attention to a minor character :scared:

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 12:23 PM
i actully feel dumb about this one, but where is this referenced? im looking through the pages and cant find it.

The blog. It's down right now but when it goes back up I'll link it.

xyzzy
01-22-2007, 12:27 PM
Or we were too captivated by the story to pay attention to a minor character :scared:

When you get into a story, you lose interest in supporting characters? Weird, but okay.

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 12:29 PM
When you get into a story, you lose interest in supporting characters? Weird, but okay.

No, but I'm usually too busy rolling the main plot in my head to pay that close of attention. Him being gay wasnt really a priority. I just didn't care if he was gay or not. The moment the cheerleader made the comment, i took it as a cruel joke and moved on.

Ben Weldon
01-22-2007, 12:32 PM
It does NOW.

But if I had never read that, he would still be straight, and since he character changed, I wouldn't have been the wiser. I'm just saying, not all of us read everything on the show. The fact we didn't know he was gay is still understandable.


Oh, dont get me wrong I understand how you missed the subtext and I guess now he's straightened out it's the corect way to look at the story as a whole.

I could have missed it myself if I didnt look out for that sort of stuff (I still say there's something going on with those Winchester boys from Supernatural ;) )

BaconWhoreSqueeeaaal
01-22-2007, 12:47 PM
(I still say there's something going on with those Winchester boys from Supernatural ;) )

Don't scare me like that :(

My highlight of going home is seeing the billboard with the three hottest guys from Smallville and the two hotties from Supernatural on one billboard

FedEx Fanboy
01-22-2007, 06:10 PM
ok, that was useless information i could care less about.

Totally agree.

Bill Nolan
01-22-2007, 06:50 PM
Wow, they really "de-gayed" him this week...

- B

LordKinbote
01-22-2007, 07:07 PM
Wow, they really "de-gayed" him this week...

- B

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.

Adam Geen
01-22-2007, 07:08 PM
I was telling the gf tonight about this thread and we both didn't even realize he was supposed to gay. We expected him to shag the cheerleader heh. Or at least try.

bpepple
01-22-2007, 07:12 PM
Wow. I'm stunned at how much I don't care.
+1.