SHE-HULK #15 Thoughts and Reactions *SPOILERS*

[Dermie]

****WARNING!!!! This post contains SPOILERS for SHE-HULK #15: "Planet Without A Hulk Part 1"!!!! If you do not wish to be spoiled, please do not read any further!!!! You have been warned!!!!!

Shulkie's most action-packed arc begins! It was a very definate break from the series' usual status quo, with none of the GLK&H supporting characters appearing--the only old supporting cast member who shows up is Doc Samson. Of course, Jen does pick up a few new cast members along the way, like Clay Quartermain.

I enjoyed the opening scene flashback to the fight with the Doombot from CIVIL WAR #2. That was a nice touch, and a good set-up for Jen being drafted into S.H.I.E.L.D. Tony tells Jen and the others that they won't be SHIELD agents...and then the next thing Jen knows, she's getting drafted. Did Tony intentionally mislead her, or was he also misinformed about what the heroes status would be?

Samson wants Jen to return to therapy, but she refuses to acknowledge that she has any problems. Many of us have noticed over the past few issues that Jen has been backsliding a bit. I'm glad to see we're getting back to that subplot, and hopefully we'll see Jen start to change her mind and start accepting some help from Samson again in a few issues.

Shulkie looks surprisingly good in a SHIELD uniform--I wouldn't have thought the blue/black uniforms would go well with her green skin, but it looks better than I thought. And Jen's gliding off the Helicarrier was just cool! :)

She-Hulk's first Hulk foe is the Abomination, and Jen is in way over her head. I guess She-Hulk hasn't regained the increased strength she had in the later issues of volume 1. Even then she wasn't quite at Hulk's strength level, but she would have been more evenly matched with the Abomination. I wonder if Jen will ever be able to get that increased strength back?

While Shulkie fights, Clay and his team evacuate civilians from the area...which is how we've never had any civilian fatalities during a Hulk battle. Nice touch there to explain that.
And our other new supporting character--Agent Cheesecake--stops a bunch of looters. Agent Cheesecake? I guess they didn't want to give her a real name and have people forget that she is an LMD instead of a human agent...but geez, what a name. :lol:
Interesting idea, having an LMD agent for seduction assignments. I guess that is to relieve human agents from having to seduce people and sleep with enemies for undercover missions.

Back to the fight, Shulkie gets to show off her fighting skills again, from her training with Cap and Gamora. Its fun to see She-Hulk fighting like this, since in the past she's tended to be more of a brawler herself. This is the biggest fight scene the book has had since Rick Burchett took over as artist, and he sets up to the challenge here.

Jen calls Samson for a psychological edge over Abomination...and ends up interrupting a therapy session for Hank Pym. I'm glad Dan threw that in there--given Hank's history, I'm glad to finally see a scene with him seeing a therapist. We've seen him get some unofficial counselling before (such as with Bonita Juarez), but this is the first time we've seen him in a formal counselling session. And with everything that's been going on in Civil War, its definately a good time for Hank to be seeing a shrink.

With Samson's advice, Jen takes the Abomination down, but she hangs up on him when he turns the subject to what Jen's gamma form represents about her own psyche.

When I learned that Jen was going to be working alongside Clay Quartermain, the main pretty-boy beefcake of SHIELD, I thought it was too bad that Jen's marital status was still unresolved....but obviously that wasn't a problem after all. Jen tells us that she and John are separated...but does she mean legally, or in the literal sense that she and John have gone their separate ways for now?
She-Hulk and Clay are now lovers, but it remains to be seen if this will be an ongoing thing, or if it was just a one-night stand. I think Clay could be a good rebound fling for her, but I doubt that they'll be together long term. But they'll probably last as long as she's working with SHIELD--it seems to practically be a job requirement for SHIELD agents assigned to work with heroes. I mean we've had Sharon Carter with Captain America, Ali Morales with the Falcon, and now Clay and She-Hulk. "Sleeping With Superheroes" is probably a required course at SHIELD academy! ;)

Anyway, I very much enjoyed the start of the new arc, and I look forward to seeing what is in store next issue (including the inevitable Wolverine appearance). Hopefully some of the GLK&H bunch will be able to make subplot appearances too.

Thanks Dan (and Rick, Cliff, etc) for another fun issue! :)

[wessner]

Although the quality of the writing and the art in this issue remains high, it has none of the aspects of the She-Hulk series that I have enjoyed up till now.

What I liked about the previous 26 issues of She-Hulk has been the diverse supporting cast, the fun legal cases and watching She-Hulk/Jen improve as a person. Now both the cast and the legal aspect have been jettisoned and She-Hulk herself seems to be on a downward emotional spiral that looks like it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. If the rest of "Planet Without a Hulk" is going to be like this, I will probably sit the remainder of this arc out.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Strong start to the She-Hulk Smash arc. I enjoyed the fight - appearances to the contrary, I think showing a fight in a comic can be a tricky thing, and this issue came through. It wasn't just smash-smash-smash, there was storytelling going on there. I expect what Doc said about gamma forms to pop up again - aside from what we should all have learned by now, that Dan Slott doesn't write dialogue just to fill pages, the past issues (psychological issues, as well as back-issues, that is) with Jen deciding whether or not to be She-Hulk full-time have been too prevalent for this to be a coincidence, and the final scene obviously points to a Jen/Shulkie dichotomy simmering.

I liked the opening - more giant robot fighting is always welcome (though no insult to Shulkie, I always though Ms Marvel was the one who delivered the coup de grace on the Doombot - in CW#2 it had a big damn hole punched in its body, and Iron Man pulls Carol out of it, so I figured she took it down by flying into it at supersonic speed or something). Though I find myself somewhat on Iron Man's side, with she superhero/SHIELD agent debate - my take on what he said to She-Hulk in CW#2 was that he was saying that being a superhero is about actions, about what you do with your life, not who's writing your paycheck, not that heroes wouldn't have to be SHIELD agents in order to operate legally.

I'm still liking the art. Having seen some comments about it being 'too cartoony' I'm not really sure I can wholly disagree - there are some scenes where I think a somewhat more realistic, less caricatured look would be good, on things like the Abomination's face and so on. He seemed a bit comedic throughout, while I think the point of the story was that it should come as a surprise when Shulkie reveals his suffering humanity at the end of the fight. But then, I look at what Burchett does with Shulkie's facial expressions, body language... Look at the panel of her sitting on the bed on the last page, just that one panel, or her in half-silhouette - it practically says the whole page's worth of writing, just in the simple lines of light and shade on her body and face. So yeah, cartoony tendencies regardless, I'd think long and hard before looking to replace Burchett with another artist.

Nice 'procedure' writing by Dan too, having the SHIELD teams evacuate the area as Shulkie was doing her hero thang, and there being looters and so forth - that kind of writing, where we see a world that seems to function, not just be there as somewhere for the main story to happen, really appeals to me. Agent Cake made me giggle, but I suspect there's more to her than meets the eye (so to speak) - again, Dan doesn't write stuff like this just to provide a bit of eye candy. I've got a weird feeling about her (and I don't mean about her costume - not just about her costume, anyway). Remember how Stu was a comedic character, almost a running gag - and then he opened his mouth at the wrong time, and zap. Mark my words, Cheesecake bears watching.

All in all, as is often the case, when I look at this week's haul from the comics shop, I don't see an issue that was more worth my bucks. Can't do wrong with that.

[CyberCoyote]

Once again I liked this issue because the story does what IMO comics SHOULD do, it told a story with character developement mixed into the action. LMD and SHIELD were expounded upon for new readers in the midst of chaos rather than in lifeless talking head panels.

Jen's call to the Doc revealed so much about herself as he expounded upon her enemy. New readers learned exactly how this female version of the Hulk just might be able to fill her cousins spot for a while using skill and smarts rather than just pure brawn (although the Hulk now a days is pretty danged clever!)

But through it all I ended the issue with one main impression. Jen wielded TWO Quarterstaffs this issue (shudder) :grope:

[Dave S.]

I liked it. I thought it was funny, which is what I like in She-Hulk. The 'Candygram." line had me actually laughing out loud, which I don't normally do while reading. But I still want to get back to superhuman law. Also, I want Bendis to go away. With the announcement of the last New Avenger, I'm angry and no longer interested in the title. Sorry, that wasn't related to Slott or She-Hulk.

[Edward J. Cunningham]

I liked it. I thought it was funny, which is what I like in She-Hulk. The 'Candygram." line had me actually laughing out loud, which I don't normally do while reading. But I still want to get back to superhuman law. Also, I want Bendis to go away. With the announcement of the last New Avenger, I'm angry and no longer interested in the title. Sorry, that wasn't related to Slott or She-Hulk.

Face it, Spider-Man and Wolverine are the two most popular Marvel characters. Period. The reason Wolverine is on so many teams and makes so many guest appearances is because books with Wolvie in them SELL. There's also a reason why Spider-Man appears in four solo books, and Captain America can only carry one.

Unless the sales for New Avengers drop below what The Avengers were selling, I do not see either Logan or Peter leaving that book anytime soon. And I am not bothered at all as long as Jennifer has her own book and is appearing somewhere in the Marvel Universe...

[Edward J. Cunningham]

Getting back to the original subject, this story makes perfectly clear that for whatever reason Jennifer changed back to human form at the end of last month's issue, it certainly was NOT because she changed her mind about remaining the She-Hulk 24/7. My theory is that...

...she changed back to Jen Walters to show John that it is not simply the case that her green alter ego is no longer in love with him, but SHE as Jen Walters is out of love, too. Veteran She-Hulk fans may be reminded of the end of the original Savage She-Hulk arc where the She-Hulk was attracted to Zapper while Jen felt closer to Richard Rory. Eventually, after she changed back to Jen in the final issue, Jen tells Richard (while in human) form that she would rather be the She-Hulk. I think Dan is going to go for something like this, but poor John is going to be more devastated than Richard was.

[Colin Solan]

I was pretty disappointed with Jen for shtupping Quartermain just to prove a point to herself.

And Johnny Storm must be pissed that she's gone far enough down the superhero roster to be nailing SHIELD agents but still he can't get no gamma enhanced lovin'.

[Edward J. Cunningham]

I was pretty disappointed with Jen for shtupping Quartermain just to prove a point to herself.

And Johnny Storm must be pissed that she's gone far enough down the superhero roster to be nailing SHIELD agents but still he can't get no gamma enhanced lovin'.

Well, when Jennifer joined the FF, she was still fairly new as a professional superhero. Furthermore, Jen still occassionally changed back to her human form, so she was better "grounded." I don't think Dan intended us to cheer Jen hobbling Quartermain. On the contrary, I think he's building up that she has a problem on her hands by not changing back to Jen.

As far as Johnny is concerned, the Hobble-Doo-Ga-Ga Handbook (http://www.greasemanstore.com/images/store%20items/Hobble-Handbook-CD-cover.jpg) might have helped him close the deal with Jennifer, except that one of the cardinal rules of that massive volume is to NEVER have a love affair with a co-worker. Of course, now that she is off the FF, Jen is fair game. I suspect that Johnny is going to be busy doing other stuff right now, like trying to avoid being captured by the pro-registration heroes...

Eddie Cunningham

[Dusty]

She Hulk #15 was A MAJOR disappointment for me. Two reasons. Number one, Burchet is just no doing it. His Abomination was laughable, his She-Hulk isn't sexy, and the style just isn't very strong. Imagine if John Byrne was drawing this story, or Paull Pelletier. She-Hulk should be treated to one of the best artists in the stables, being that she's their #1 solo female character. Her body should be a selling point, meaning you need an artist who can handle drawing the T & A the way it is meant to be drawn. Andrea Di Vito should be put on the series. He's a good artist, he's fast, he's worked with Dan before, and he's finishing up his current mini series commitments. He'd surely be within the books budget. If the book is going to sell, an art change like this needs to happen FAST!

The second reason I didn't like it was the way Slott made the Abomination act completely dumb and out of character, and made She-Hulk a low class whore. Shame on you, Dan. :-x

I am close to dropping this. It's a rare time that I have ever bought something that I didn't care for the art at all in. The first issue of what looked like a promising story didn't deliver, so next issue really counts now. 4/10

[wessner]

I was pretty disappointed with Jen for shtupping Quartermain just to prove a point to herself.
No good can possibly come of this. Sleeping with your boss is never good news. And it's difficult to respect a paramilitary commander who has sex with one of his subordinates.

And to be fair, it was She-Hulk who slept with Quartermain, not Jen. She admitted to herself that Jen would never have done that. Despite all her protestations to the contrary, we are seeing that She-Hulk and Jen are not exactly the same.

[Edward J. Cunningham]

She Hulk #15 was A MAJOR disappointment for me. Two reasons. Number one, Burchet is just no doing it. His Abomination was laughable, his She-Hulk isn't sexy, and the style just isn't very strong. Imagine if John Byrne was drawing this story, or Paull Pelletier. She-Hulk should be treated to one of the best artists in the stables, being that she's their #1 solo female character. Her body should be a selling point, meaning you need an artist who can handle drawing the T & A the way it is meant to be drawn. Andrea Di Vito should be put on the series. He's a good artist, he's fast, he's worked with Dan before, and he's finishing up his current mini series commitments. He'd surely be within the books budget. If the book is going to sell, an art change like this needs to happen FAST!

Paul Pelletier was on this book, remember? People were divided about him like they were about Juan Bobillo, but I do remember this. The biggest fans of Pelettier STILL did not like the book because they disliked Dan's writing. And the biggest fans of the book were turned off by Pelettier's artwork PRECISELY because of the "T & A" which you consider so essential.

She-Hulk is one of Marvel's premiere heroines, but not even I would consider her to be Marvel's #1 alpha female. Spider-Woman and Ms. Marvel are ahead of her in the pecking order, and Storm is probably Marvel's #1 female thanks to the X-books.

If I had to replace Rick Burchett with another artist, it would be Mike Weiringo who draws GORGEOUS 'toony artwork that would perfectly complement Dan's style. But I am willing to give Rick time so I can get used to his style.


The second reason I didn't like it was the way Slott made the Abomination act completely dumb and out of character, and made She-Hulk a low class whore. Shame on you, Dan. :-x

How is he out of character? The self-loathing that is the core of the Abomination was introduced by Peter David and other writers elaborated on. The Abomination is stronger than the Hulk (at least initially) so Jennifer should not be able to defeat him by force, and she admits she is out of her league. I don't think Emil was "dumb" in falling for Jen's taunts. To me, this was a believable way for Jen to get Emil to lower his guard.

Eddie Cunningham

[Dermie]

I was pretty disappointed with Jen for shtupping Quartermain just to prove a point to herself.

I don't think that was what was happening at all. It is more a case of a rebound relationship--Jen is trying to move on after a marriage that she was artificially pushed into. Clay is handsome, and available and interested...so she took advantage of the opportunity. It is by no means out of character for Shulkie to find someone attractive and quickly go to bed with them...just ask Wyatt Wingfoot, or Starfox, or Mika, etc. And given that Jen is certainly feeling a bit lost and lonely right now, with everything that has happened to her and the people around her lately, it is hardly surprising that she'd seek out a bit of companionship.


No good can possibly come of this. Sleeping with your boss is never good news. And it's difficult to respect a paramilitary commander who has sex with one of his subordinates.

While its true that these things can have complications, it isn't necessarily doomed from the start. We've seen various superhero team leaders who've had romances with their teammates. And its not like Clay is the director of SHIELD or anything; he is closer to being Jen's equal.


But through it all I ended the issue with one main impression. Jen wielded TWO Quarterstaffs this issue (shudder)

:lol: Nice one.


And Johnny Storm must be pissed that she's gone far enough down the superhero roster to be nailing SHIELD agents but still he can't get no gamma enhanced lovin'.

I'm not sure if Johnny still has the hots for Shulkie. After the time they've spent together in the FF family (as well as how close Jen came to marrying Johnny's best friend Wyatt), his feelings for her may be more platonic now.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I've been giving some further thought to my nebulous unease regarding Agent Cheesecake - I'll use spoiler tags, just to cover my arse in the unlikely event I'm right about her (and a reference to a future cover we've seen):

Does anyone else think she might be a threat to She-Hulk? She's evidently recently been assigned to Clay's Hulkbuster unit - he had to tell her he'd never lost a civilian, doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd say to someone who's been around a while already. Is it possible Tony, who was already worried about She-Hulk learning what he'd done to her cousin, dreamed up Cheesecake as a way to keep an eye on her while she was with SHIELD - i.e. in proximity to the proof of what the Illuminati had done, both SHIELD files (there must be some record) and the villains who, as we saw with Abomination, have noticed Hulk's not around no more? We saw Clay's not averse to female company or a quick shag - perhaps Cheesecake was designed as her scantily-clad shapely self so as to be something he could just chalk up as eye candy and not pay much attention to, besides perving at her boobs - giving her free rein to snoop around as much as required without her 'boss' bothering to supervise her. And the cover to #17 showed She-Hulk under attack from a Fury LMD - perhaps Cheesecake has the ability to reprogram other LMDs (a la Terminator 3), and use them to stall or misdirect She-Hulk, in the event that she looks like uncovering the truth?

In fact, she said one of her programmed purposes was 'decoy' - maybe Cheesecake's ultimate function is to appear to have been the one responsible for shooting Hulk into space, and covering it up, thus giving Tony and co. deniability in the event it's discovered? So far as She-Hulk would see, if she got on the trail of the truth, it'd be Cheesecake trying to stop her and cover it up, and perhaps she's got some programming to make her implicate AIM or Hydra or who knows what (maybe, being a robot, she even believes she is an AIM agent).

Just some thoughts - but like I said before, I'm damned sure there's more to Cheesecake than just cheesecake.

[tom daylight]

I like Agent Cheesecake, for the name alone.

[Dusty]

I haven't had any desire to revisit this issue at all. It all because of the art. As somebody said, this was the wrong choice for an artist for such an action packed storyline as this. If ever a story arc artist was needed, this was a time.

I would like to make some suggestions for a change.

Andrea Di Vito (would be great as the regular artist)
Kieron Dwyer (Did a bang up job with the Thing series)
John Byrne (just look at this and imagine it as the art for this storyline)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Marvelpics/weightsh.jpg
Rob Liefeld (for an arc and some media attention)
Barry Windsor-Smith (he'd draw a great She-Hulk for an arc)
Jim Balent (monthly speed and experience with female heroines)

[Dan Slott]

...just look at this and imagine it as the art for this storyline...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Marvelpics/weightsh.jpg

Okay...
I've imagined it. And the story is pretty awkward now that you've recast She-Hulk as a double-amputee.














Just kiddin' ;)
Seriously though, I could NOT be happier than I am with our current artist, Eisner Award winning penciler, Rick Burchett. :)

[Dusty]

Seriously though, I could NOT be happier than I am with our current artist, Eisner Award winning penciler, Rick Burchett. :)

I'm sure you guys get along well and have a great working relationship, Dan, but Eisner winner or not, he's just not doing it for me and many others. I'm sure you're also seeing lots of people commenting negatively on the art. It's not just me. It's not a knock on Rick Burchett, but he's not really right for this series IMO and in the opinion of enough who are voicing their displeasure that you and Brevoort at least have to examine another option.

[Dingo]

I think Rick is settling in and doing a great job.

At this stage I still prefer Bobillo, but hey that is just an opinion, and probably because you always have a special place in your heart for your first ;)

Personally I haven't very many people commenting negatively on the art, but I am willing to concede I may be missing it.
One thing I will say though is that he has brought some much needed stability to the title. That was the biggest problem with She-Hulk by far. And many more people were complaining about that than have been complaining about Rick's work. I can be pretty sure of that.

Final thing, and not really a big point, if you are going to critisise an editorial decision, if you offer alternatives at least make sure that they are all possible. I would say that at least half your list for one reason or another are not going to happen.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I wouldn't drop Burchett unless I knew someone better was ready and willing to commit to the book, and would be in it for the long run as Burchett it. And when I say 'someone better', that's not an open field - as I think I said earlier in the thread, if you look at the one single panel on the last page, of She-Hulk sitting on Clay's bed half in shadow before she gets up, just her expression and body language in that one panel almost tells the whole story of that whole page, narration boxes and all. This is not an artist I'd turn away from lightly. In fact, I'm not sure I'd trade Burchett for anyone but Bobillo - and that's purely a style thing, based largely on Bobillo being the artist I first saw She-Hulk drawn by. (Paul Smith would come in a close second, mainly because he drew She-Hulk with a strong Lucy Lawless resemblance, 'nuff said.)

I have noticed - on CBR, which is the main comic board I frequent - what seems like a fair few people raising 'the art' as an issue, and not always just the regular haters either. "Loved it, except the art," is a comment that's popped up more than once, and I think there may be a little to that, but I don't think it's Burchett's doing. I know I've mentioned this before in prior issues (so ignore me if I'm just harping on), but I think colour is a big factor in what these people are complaining about - they're too light and pale. I've grabbed a panel from one of the preview pages offered online (I don't have a scanner, so it's the best I could do), and here it is, side by side with the same panel adjusted to match what's on the page of my copy this month:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h301/miss_kitty_fantastico/sh15colour.jpg

(Edit: original on the left, best appoximation of the printed issue I bought on the right.)

There's a decent difference there. Now granted there's no doubt variations in printing, some batches come out light and some come out dark, not to mention the fun I have boosting gamma settings through the roof to keep my years-old monitor from needing replacing. But I honestly think what people are seeing when they say 'too cartoony' is these light colours. Abomination was drawn a bit cartoony, sure, that's Burchett's style, but in my copy his whole body was coloured fairly light green, with nothing approaching a really dark shadow on him - I think that's what made him look less than foreboding, not the lines.

Granted, I know nothing about how comics are coloured and printed. But if someone said to me "Hey, you're an internet fanboy with no experience of this kind of thing, what should we do?" I'd say get some darker shades into the colour palette, be willing to perhaps lose some detail in shadow if it prints dark, rather than have it look 'cartoony' if it prints light. Burchett's lines are so crisp and clean, I think that the colours can't get away with being light and pale the way they can on other titles, which get more 'grittiness' from artists who produce more inked black, and messier (i.e. pseudo-shadowy) lines.

So that's my two cents on the art thing: Burchett's doing good, the colours could stand to be darker, but heck, even if things stay just as they are now it's still the best book around. Like I said, uninformed and no practical colouring/printing experience - but I'm an internet fanboy, if I didn't offer my opinion on everything at the drop of a hat, they'd take away my toaster oven or something.

[Sam Johnson]

I would tend to agree with the Burchett nay-sayers. For me, his art has ranged from kind of quirky to simply inferior, and She-Hulk does need an artist that can draw "sexy" which he just hasn't done. I also feel he's not helped by the current inker or colorist, who seem to emphasise the worst aspects of the art - static poses and plain, light colours. I much preferred the art in #10, where the inking gave the book a more grounded feel. An exception would be #14, but then Awesome Andy is already a static kind of character!

I think Burchett's especially mismatched for an action-packed arc like this. It would be great to have Andrea DiVito or Kieron Dwyer drawing it.

Oh, and She-Hulk is Marvel's no. 1 heroine. Besides Storm, she has the most name value and recognition to non-comics readers, and she's the only female character who's been able to support a solo book repeatedly.

[Dingo]

Besides Storm, she has the most name value and recognition to non-comics readers,


Actually, not true. If I had a dollar for everytime someone came into my store and said "Wow, there is a She-Hulk", then I could take us all out for a drink.

Amongst comic fans may be another story.

[wessner]

I like Burchett's art and I think it's a good match for the tone of the book. The only criticism I've had is that sometimes the proportions of characters' heads and hands seemed to flucuate, but I've noticed that less as he's settled in.

I certainly don't agree with the criticisms that call Burchett's art "bad" or "terrible" or even "cartoony." It has a somewhat minimalistic flavour, which is I like. Having more lines on a page doesn't automatically equate to an increase in quality or detail. He does his research and puts a lot of effort and craft into facial expressions and body language, while still adding his own interpretations. I hope Burchett can remain as the penciller on this book for a good, long time.

[Sam Johnson]

Actually, not true. If I had a dollar for everytime someone came into my store and said "Wow, there is a She-Hulk", then I could take us all out for a drink.

Yes, but I still think more non-comics readers would be able to tell you who She-Hulk is than Spider-Woman or Ms. Marvel (bearing in mind that's not many for any of them). She-Hulk just gets remarked upon because the concept of a female Hulk is actually very weird.

[tom daylight]

And, let's face it, SHE-HULK is an awful name.

[Dingo]

Yes, but I still think more non-comics readers would be able to tell you who She-Hulk is than Spider-Woman or Ms. Marvel (bearing in mind that's not many for any of them). She-Hulk just gets remarked upon because the concept of a female Hulk is actually very weird.

Spider-woman would be about the same.
Yes I agree less would know Ms Marvel.

But thanks to the movies I would say Electra would take the 'solo' cake, and if we are including team members then Storm, Jean Grey, Rogue and the Invisible Woman would all win. Hell MJ and Aunt may would probably be more widely recognised too.

[Dusty]

Final thing, and not really a big point, if you are going to critisise an editorial decision, if you offer alternatives at least make sure that they are all possible. I would say that at least half your list for one reason or another are not going to happen.

Really, that's being a bit anal. Don't worry so much about me throwing out some dream suggestions.

[Edward J. Cunningham]

Spider-woman would be about the same.
Yes I agree less would know Ms Marvel.

But thanks to the movies I would say Electra would take the 'solo' cake, and if we are including team members then Storm, Jean Grey, Rogue and the Invisible Woman would all win. Hell MJ and Aunt may would probably be more widely recognised too.

That reminds me. I see you have a "Peanuts-style" rendition of the Greg Horn cover for She-Hulk 2 #1. Could you point me to where I could see the original? Thanks!

[Dingo]

That reminds me. I see you have a "Peanuts-style" rendition of the Greg Horn cover for She-Hulk 2 #1. Could you point me to where I could see the original? Thanks!

Well it is really more Year One style (http://www.webcomicsnation.com/snufflymonkey/yearone/series.php), but anyhoo.

It was something I commisioned as an avatar so there isn't much more than what you see.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/dingogary/big-shehulk.jpg

Feel free to use it as you choose. Melike does do commisions if you want.

[Dusty]

I think Burchett's especially mismatched for an action-packed arc like this. It would be great to have Andrea DiVito or Kieron Dwyer drawing it.

I was just looking through my Thing issues and picturing how either of them would draw the series. My vote would go to Andrea Di Vito, and I'd also want him on covers, but I would be fine if Dwyer was the regular guy, as well. They both have monthly speed. Marvel should take care of their #1 female soloist by providing an artist who's style would be more proper and exciting, not quirky.

Di Vito is more traditional, while Dwyer pushes the edges of quirky and finds a nice blend. I think Dwyer would work great with the humor of the series. And yes, take a look at Laura Villari's colors from the Thing, Thor, or Union Jack. Those vibrant colors look much better than what's being done in She-Hulk. Too pale.

It's just not working for me with Burchett. Sorry.

[tom daylight]

I think Burchett is doing a solid job. His work suits the title better than Paul Pelletier or Will Conrad did, and he's proven a lot more reliable than Juan Bobillo (who for my money is the best this title has had) and Paul Smith (who only lasted a disappointing issue and a half!!!). Although the suggestions of Byrne and Dwyer are particularly tempting, I doubt the likelihood of either signing up to draw the She-Hulk series every month, so I feel pretty satisfied with what we're getting.

[Sam Johnson]

I think Burchett is doing a solid job. His work suits the title better than Paul Pelletier or Will Conrad did

I thought Paul Pelletier was great for SHE-HULK. I really can't choose between Juan Bobillo or Pelletier for my favourite Shulkie artist, they were both fantastic. I loved his She-Hulk and he killed with the comic timing when Titania first appeared and when Hercules was in court. Not to mention that Paul drew what are, in my opinion, some of the best issues to date - SHE-HULK #9-12.

[Edward J. Cunningham]

And, let's face it, SHE-HULK is an awful name.

In the "Fem Four" stories, her code name has been changed to "Liberty." No, she does NOT wear a star-spangled outfit.

[Edward J. Cunningham]

I was just looking through my Thing issues and picturing how either of them would draw the series. My vote would go to Andrea Di Vito, and I'd also want him on covers,

Covers? COVERS? I can understand why people are not fond of Rick Burchett's pencils, but we have Greg Horn drawing the covers. Since Adam "AH!" Hughes is exclusive to DC, I don't think we can get anybody better in that department. Is there something about Horn's artwork you don't like?

[Dingo]

Covers? COVERS? I can understand why people are not fond of Rick Burchett's pencils, but we have Greg Horn drawing the covers. Since Adam "AH!" Hughes is exclusive to DC, I don't think we can get anybody better in that department. Is there something about Horn's artwork you don't like?

It seems to me that if you had DiVito on a book it would be a waste of his talents not to put him on covers too.
This isn't a dig at Horn whom I think does an excellent job on covers.
It's just that DiVito is also a great cover artist, so you may as well show off the style inside the book.

As an aside, I would love Dan to write an annual or a done-in-one where we could see Horn's work for a whole book. Just because I am curious to see what he would do telling a story.

[tom daylight]

In the "Fem Four" stories, her code name has been changed to "Liberty." No, she does NOT wear a star-spangled outfit.

Wow, I didn't think they could give her a worse name than She-Hulk, and you've proven me wrong :)

[Edward J. Cunningham]

Wow, I didn't think they could give her a worse name than She-Hulk, and you've proven me wrong :)

I thought "Liberty" was an amusing reference to the OTHER famous big green lady in New York City. Sorry you don't like it...

Eddie Cunningham

[Edward J. Cunningham]

Wow, I didn't think they could give her a worse name than She-Hulk, and you've proven me wrong :)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider "Knockout" to be worse than "Liberty"?

[Sam Johnson]

Finally was able to pick up the latest SHE-HULK issue, and I have to say I was mildly disappointed. I was expecting something with a little more... substance. It was still a good read, although a much quicker one than other issue. However, as the bulk of the issue was a fight, I'm sure a stronger action artist could really have knocked this one out of the park. I'm pretty sure this issue will stand up better with the rest of the arc, but if this was my first issue I'm not sure I would be coming back, which ain't too good considering this is an excellent jumping-on point. I really hope the arc isn't just "She-Hulk fights random Hulk villains then finds out about Planet Hulk".

[tom daylight]

I think Dan is slightly hamstrung by the Civil War delays... I reckon this story was originally meant to go further into the post-CW Marvel Universe, but for now it's particularly restrained in that light.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I don't know if that's necessarily the case - perhaps there were small changes made to the issue as scripted, but it made sense to me that the first issue of this arc was a straight-up intro, and centred around the big fight, rather than trying to introduce more complexity right away. We've got our new players on the scene - Clay, Cheesecake, the notion of She-Hulk looking for her cousin, and the suggestion that SHIELD may be gathering villains, rather than just locking them up, and the mention of the new SHIELD director - and now there's two issues to deepen those characters and ideas before they all need to collide in the fourth issue.

[tom daylight]

I'm not suggesting anything was "taken out", per se... I reckon Dan didn't get round to writing this until after CW was already delayed... but I reckon he would have been a lot more specific about things. Remember how #9 was right on the wire with Spider-Man's unmasking? (The original release date was actually before CW2 was meant to hit!) Similarly #8 as one of the very first Civil War tie-ins...

[Battle-Dwarf]

New poster here, people!

I know this issue has been beaten into the ground, then after the dust clears, run over (back & forth) by a Dodge Charger and finally sealed by cement but...

I have to say it...

After reading She-Hulk #14 and #15, I really miss Juan Bobillos' artistic subtleties. I really do.
Will he ever come back to do another She-Hulk issue???

[Edward J. Cunningham]

New poster here, people!

I know this issue has been beaten into the ground, then after the dust clears, run over (back & forth) by a Dodge Charger and finally sealed by cement but...

I have to say it...

After reading She-Hulk #14 and #15, I really miss Juan Bobillos' artistic subtleties. I really do.
Will he ever come back to do another She-Hulk issue???

It's up to Juan. Although Bobillo's stylizations have provoked SEVERE
reactions from fans (folks either love him or hate him), I have seen
nothing to indicate that Marvel was ever dissatisfied with his work.
Juan Bobillo left (to the best of my knowledge) so he could draw other
comics. If he were to change his mind, I'm sure he would be welcomed
back with open arms.

That being said, fans are being WAY too harsh on Rick Burchette. I was really
impressed with his work in issue #15 and I'd like to see how he continues
to progress. (And if I said it before, I'll say it again. Burchette is NOT drawing She-Hulk too short. All the other artists from Juan Bobillo and his successors have been drawing her TOO TALL.) Take a good look on how he draws Mallory's face in the theatre watching A Midsummer's Night Dream. Anybody who does not ache for her needs a heart transplant.

[Edward J. Cunningham]

She Hulk #15 was A MAJOR disappointment for me. Two reasons. Number one, Burchet is just no doing it. His Abomination was laughable, his She-Hulk isn't sexy, and the style just isn't very strong. Imagine if John Byrne was drawing this story, or Paull Pelletier. She-Hulk should be treated to one of the best artists in the stables, being that she's their #1 solo female character. Her body should be a selling point, meaning you need an artist who can handle drawing the T & A the way it is meant to be drawn. Andrea Di Vito should be put on the series. He's a good artist, he's fast, he's worked with Dan before, and he's finishing up his current mini series commitments. He'd surely be within the books budget. If the book is going to sell, an art change like this needs to happen FAST!

The second reason I didn't like it was the way Slott made the Abomination act completely dumb and out of character, and made She-Hulk a low class whore. Shame on you, Dan. :-x

I am close to dropping this. It's a rare time that I have ever bought something that I didn't care for the art at all in. The first issue of what looked like a promising story didn't deliver, so next issue really counts now. 4/10

So, the She-Hulk's body should be a selling point and this book needs an artist who can ratchet up the T & A. Just like Emma Frost, which lasted 18 issues. Or Elektra which lasted 36. Those books aren't making the same mistake that Spider-Girl made...oh, wait a second. Spider-Girl is still being published WITHOUT T & A, and those other books have been cancelled.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a prude, and I like sexy heroines as much as the next guy. But one of the things I like about Dan Slott's book is that he is confident that there are fans who will buy this book because they like the CHARACTER rather than just as "wank material." Byrne and his successors did not have similar confidence during Sensational She-Hulk's run. Although She-Hulk rarely transformed, her clothing usually ripped almost every episode for the flimsiest of reasons. You rarely saw continuing story threads develop as you see in this book. She-Hulk was basically the same character in issue #1 as she was in issue #60.

Now if you simply do not like Rick Burchette's artwork, grab a number and get in line. (I am not in that line.) But I think that when many fans ask for Juan Bobillo to return to drawing the book, that's a sign that She-Hulk doesn't necessarily NEED an artist who draws "great T & A". In fact, the sort of artist YOU want may drive away more of the fans this book needs on a regular basis.

As for me, I like what I saw of Burchette in issue #15, and I'm more than willing to give the guy a chance.

[Battle-Dwarf]

>>>Edward J. Cunningham

Thanks for the reply!
I was very hestitant to make comments about the artwork about She-Hulk #14 & #15 here at Jinxworld and I'm pretty sure that I didn't make any harsh comments about Rick Burchettes' work on the title so please don't place me into that catagory.:no:

Actually, If I were to admit to any criticisms, I think Burchette's drawings are extremely reliable but to me, it's standardized comic book drawing. I don't mind cartoon drawing, or realism or, or, whatever... I just like plausibility and mood. The drawings overall does nothing that knocks my socks off, though.
In #15, it seems to me that he's good at doing action sequences for instance, the page with the LMD taking out the looters was done very well. I like the close-up drawing of the LMD in the panel before she fires the tranquilizer at the fleeing looter. When he's drawing She-hulk, she merely looks like a typical attractive, woman and the colorist simply made her green. For all we know, if the colorist made a mistake and colored the LMD green, the reader wouldn't even know the difference!
What's with the alternate quality drawings??? Some pages are done with care and then there are others where the pages are drawn as an afterthought. There are panels where Burchette also seems to have a problem (to me) drawing jaw-lines in profile but then are much more pleasant in other panels. Or maybe it's the colorist adding that extra thin layer of color to represent a jawline. It looks awkward.
So my point is, there is hardly any distinction in the way Burchette draws She-Hulk as a gamma-charged amazon and how anyone else draws her. Now I'm only making a comparison to drive home my point of making distinctions of She-Hulk and the people around her, and the way another artist would've handled her but---
When Bobillo was drawing her (or any of the other stable of artists that contributed in the giant-sized 100 issue for that matter) I, as the reader felt that She-Hulk's presence was very, very distinct. You could tell she had an imposing, superheroic look and she looked very different from her alternate ego (exaggerated biceps, anyone?) and any other female around her. Oh, and by the way I absolutely loved that story drawn by Scot Kolins (I think #4) that takes place in Bone, Idaho. He draws a great Jennifer Walters. The story made me tear. wanted to mention that. High five, y'all!:grope:
It's all about mood and plausibility. Sometimes, I'm just not getting that with Burchette... although...

as far as mood goes, the last page in #15 conveyed the best mood of the entire book (the shadows thrown on Quartermain were not that convincing) This is a page where Bobillo wouldv'e eaten eaten it up because for those 'in-the-know'. He does adult entertainment...very well.

I know that Bobillo has an extremely clever way to tell a story on a page. Panel by panel. It's very striking at first, because his drawing are completly devoid of the standard Marvel 'house style'; Feathering, crosshatching, and other standardized 20th century drawing is a thing of the past when it comes to Bobillo. At times, I don't feel like I'm reading a comic book instead, I'm drawn in by nice controlled, and varying lineweight coupled with stark shadows in deep contrast similar to art you'd see in a children's book ---but with an adult flair. The figures feel like part of the backgrounds, when it comes to showing the characters in repose, Bobillo has got it down, the compositions are arranged as if he was carefully stacking boxes. It's really nice, subtle stuff.
I wish I could see more.:cry: